Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Generational Cloning useless?
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tacwraith
Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:49 pm
#1
Maybe im just a newbie MBE but.. is trying to 'improve' a trait via generational cloning useless?
I have a ton of above average quality piket and bol dna that i got while grinding out box3 and 4.
Since i saved it all i decided to just burn it all up tinkering with stuff before going out for good dna...so as to not waste that one 'learning'.
Anyways, my results have been extremely dissapointing. And thats saying something since i knew i wasnt going to make good pets with them , but its the difference between the generation clones that really got to me.
(well that and being master BE and still failing to sample my inventory clones more than half the fekking time and losing my clones before i can get useful dna from them grrrrrrr!).
To not get into exact specifics, the DNA i was using had 500 stats in health and action and mind.the aggression profile lets just say was also 500 (i dont remember the numbers but its just to give the example).
I decide to make the clones all be anglers so i can compare the results.
I make 2 sets of 1st gen clones experimented for ham, no points on agressive profile.
1st gen pairs of clones have 9k hams all over, damage of 120-130 lev 24
Made a 2nd pair of 1st gens experimented fully on aggressive profile.
they come out 7k ham with 180-190 damage lev25
took dna from 1st gen hams .. also above average quality. The ham stats on those came out lower than the piket dna (which i thought was because they were different creatures)... so I decided to make a pure '1st gen clone'.
So took 5 dna samples from the 1st gen HAM and made 1st gen ham 'B'. Experimented fully on ham stats only (no psy or agression).
Result was a 6k ham 100-110 damage lev 24. Oookaaaayy.... maybe its the inbred idiot of the family.
Did the same for for the aggression experimented gen1's.. same result, damage was lowered to 150-160.
So i begin mixing clone dna with new dna from pikets and bols and experimenting on ham or aggression profiles..
no matter what I did, the ham and damage output kept going down until 90-100 and 4k ham bars..but the level remained 24-25 (around 7th and 8th gen clones using dna from previous gen clones)
Oddly enough though, I DID have a weird clone hybrid from the 2. On 4th generation anglers (about 6.5k ham and 140-150 damage respectively) I took dna and mixed it.. the HAM 4th gens dna samples going into HAM slots and the aggression and psych dna from the aggression 4th gens... experimented 4 points into aggression and the rest into balancing the ham bars...
result was a 7k ham 310-320 damage angler with 30% kinetic, AR0.
So im just confused at this point.
Inbreeding DNA from same clones lowers all stats but not level..yet somehow I marry the cousins of the 4th gen and all the sudden i get good aggression but still not so good ham stats.
Did I just creat a G.W. Bush of anglers? O.o
I guess im just curious as to how to improve a strain for pets. Do i just have to keep making 1st gens and mixing different 1st gen dna (say rancor+kimo dna make up one 1st gen clone, another 1st gen is kamurith and gsp dna make up the 2nd 1st gen clone) sample from both and mix them to become a 2nd gen clone and then improve strain with original creature dna (rancor/kimo/kamurith/gsp) .... or make 2nd gen clones with completely new dna (say, taken from a gaping spider) mixed with 1st gen's dna samples?
I have a ton of above average quality piket and bol dna that i got while grinding out box3 and 4.
Since i saved it all i decided to just burn it all up tinkering with stuff before going out for good dna...so as to not waste that one 'learning'.
Anyways, my results have been extremely dissapointing. And thats saying something since i knew i wasnt going to make good pets with them , but its the difference between the generation clones that really got to me.
(well that and being master BE and still failing to sample my inventory clones more than half the fekking time and losing my clones before i can get useful dna from them grrrrrrr!).
To not get into exact specifics, the DNA i was using had 500 stats in health and action and mind.the aggression profile lets just say was also 500 (i dont remember the numbers but its just to give the example).
I decide to make the clones all be anglers so i can compare the results.
I make 2 sets of 1st gen clones experimented for ham, no points on agressive profile.
1st gen pairs of clones have 9k hams all over, damage of 120-130 lev 24
Made a 2nd pair of 1st gens experimented fully on aggressive profile.
they come out 7k ham with 180-190 damage lev25
took dna from 1st gen hams .. also above average quality. The ham stats on those came out lower than the piket dna (which i thought was because they were different creatures)... so I decided to make a pure '1st gen clone'.
So took 5 dna samples from the 1st gen HAM and made 1st gen ham 'B'. Experimented fully on ham stats only (no psy or agression).
Result was a 6k ham 100-110 damage lev 24. Oookaaaayy.... maybe its the inbred idiot of the family.
Did the same for for the aggression experimented gen1's.. same result, damage was lowered to 150-160.
So i begin mixing clone dna with new dna from pikets and bols and experimenting on ham or aggression profiles..
no matter what I did, the ham and damage output kept going down until 90-100 and 4k ham bars..but the level remained 24-25 (around 7th and 8th gen clones using dna from previous gen clones)
Oddly enough though, I DID have a weird clone hybrid from the 2. On 4th generation anglers (about 6.5k ham and 140-150 damage respectively) I took dna and mixed it.. the HAM 4th gens dna samples going into HAM slots and the aggression and psych dna from the aggression 4th gens... experimented 4 points into aggression and the rest into balancing the ham bars...
result was a 7k ham 310-320 damage angler with 30% kinetic, AR0.
So im just confused at this point.
Inbreeding DNA from same clones lowers all stats but not level..yet somehow I marry the cousins of the 4th gen and all the sudden i get good aggression but still not so good ham stats.
Did I just creat a G.W. Bush of anglers? O.o
I guess im just curious as to how to improve a strain for pets. Do i just have to keep making 1st gens and mixing different 1st gen dna (say rancor+kimo dna make up one 1st gen clone, another 1st gen is kamurith and gsp dna make up the 2nd 1st gen clone) sample from both and mix them to become a 2nd gen clone and then improve strain with original creature dna (rancor/kimo/kamurith/gsp) .... or make 2nd gen clones with completely new dna (say, taken from a gaping spider) mixed with 1st gen's dna samples?
ArthurDentOnBria
Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:00 am
#2
"generation cloning" can improve creature's stats a little (I've noticed that fortitude can go up), but you're right, in general it is not worth the effort for such small differences. The reasons to use generation cloning is generally to have more control over the level of the creature, and also to control its attributes more carefully.
Let me give you an example. Suppose you had this goal: to create a creature with the stats of a bark mite burrower, only with the specials attacks of an arachne drone (strong poison and dizzy strike). A pretty reasonable way to attempt such a thing, would be a combline like:
BMB-BMB-BMB-BMB-AD
But that probably won't meet the criteria very well. This combine will result in a severly crippled bark-mite burrower-like creature without armor, with lower damage, and with all its resistances lower across the board, only having the right specials. Not what you're looking for at all. So what you can do, rather than settling for this gimped pet, is re-sample that "nerfed BMB with AD specials" that you just made, and then put a single VHQ sample from that above combine, in a combine like:
BMB-BMB-BMB-BMB-1st gen sample.
Now you're going to have a creature that has much closer to BMB stats, and the specials you want. That's just one example of how you can use this technique.
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 01-19-2005 01:04 AM
PlainWhiteSocks
Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:32 am
#3
tacwraith wrote:.... or make 2nd gen clones with completely new dna (say, taken from a gaping spider) mixed with 1st gen's dna samples?
This is the path that most of us take for multi gen pets. I tend to use 2nd gen dna for stuff like specials, resists, and special protections with added in fresh samples for HAM. It's a kinda tricky balancing game.
On the pet with the high damage... I can see two scenarios that would make this pet. They've both happened to me.
Scenario 1: Multiple failures. If one stat is lowered there is a chance that another stat is raised in the event of a failure. The raised stat might not be related to the lowered one or the stat pair you were experimenting on.
Scenario 2: A piece of dna from something other than a multi gen pet got put into the agro slot. I would drive myself batty if I counted how many times I used the wrong dna for a pet and ended up with stats that seemingly came from nowhere. Without the creature name on the dna in the crafing resource window, it's an easy mistake to make.
Spazzers
Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:21 pm
#4
I use multi-gen to lower critter level while maintaining specials and armor. I realize that the stats will decrease as I multi-gen but as long as I keep fortitude above 500 I will keep the armor.
a CL26 animal with AR1, blind strike,and strong poison is a very marketable animal.
People have got armor to stick on animals as low as CL18. You can't do this without generational cloning. Useless? Not by any means.
Felisconcolori
Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:02 am
#5
Zadokk wrote:
Spazzers wrote:
People have got armor to stick on animals as low as CL18. You can't do this without generational cloning. Useless? Not by any means.
CL15
That's one sexy dewback. I have to note, tho, that the proportion of the HAM is very close to the proportion of the "overpowered" CL10 type of pet. (Which, incidentally, usually requires generational cloning as well.) Perhaps this could be how it is both overpowered, yet still considered legal through the system?
How many generations did that take, Zadokk? And again, very sexy.
You see, generational cloning may not act the way you think it would (like animal husbandry might), but it does have it's benefits. I've heard, tho, that generational cloning can neuter a pet's courage.
Zadokk
Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:03 am
#6
Spazzers wrote:
People have got armor to stick on animals as low as CL18. You can't do this without generational cloning. Useless? Not by any means.
Hylidex
Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:07 am
#7
Generational cloning for me is
1. to add a specific special or ranged attack in a form of DNA that looks more like what I need in the slot (3rd for ranged, 4 or 5 for specials) I plan to use it in, or
2. to help stack the combination of resistances and vulnerabilities I want by giving me a larger sample to play with, or
3.to increase one or more stats in a template that would otherwise be low in that stat by adding DNA strong in that stat in a previous generation (ie. to combine strengths of two or more creatures in a single slot), or
3. to kill one or more stats to control the creature level.
Zadokk
Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:31 am
#8
lol about 20 generations. i got bored one night and had a bag load of MH dna just sitting there.... grinning at me... taunting me with its words... "use me" it said, "use me, I wont tell". Needless to say, I was overwhelmed and eventually gave in. I reckon I could get it lower but I think the dewback skin has held it back.
Felisconcolori wrote:
Zadokk wrote:
Spazzers wrote:
People have got armor to stick on animals as low as CL18. You can't do this without generational cloning. Useless? Not by any means.
CL15
That's one sexy dewback. I have to note, tho, that the proportion of the HAM is very close to the proportion of the "overpowered" CL10 type of pet. (Which, incidentally, usually requires generational cloning as well.) Perhaps this could be how it is both overpowered, yet still considered legal through the system?
How many generations did that take, Zadokk? And again, very sexy.
You see, generational cloning may not act the way you think it would (like animal husbandry might), but it does have it's benefits. I've heard, tho, that generational cloning can neuter a pet's courage.
Felisconcolori
Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:45 pm
#9
Zadokk wrote:
lol about 20 generations. i got bored one night and had a bag load of MH dna just sitting there.... grinning at me... taunting me with its words... "use me" it said, "use me, I wont tell". Needless to say, I was overwhelmed and eventually gave in. I reckon I could get it lower but I think the dewback skin has held it back.
How do you get a "bag load" of MH DNA? I just picked up ranger, in part, so I could find the damn things.Of course, I don't spend as much time on Endor as I probably should, but...
Have you gotten this creature out in combat? I have a dewback that works wonders (shhhhh, it's from pre-BE changes, and the level is all kinds of messed up) when the damn thing doesn't run away. Which it does if something looks at it funny. Hmm. Maybe if you used a squall skin....
Zadokk
Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:58 pm
#10
KMH static spawn.
Felisconcolori wrote:
Zadokk wrote:
lol about 20 generations. i got bored one night and had a bag load of MH dna just sitting there.... grinning at me... taunting me with its words... "use me" it said, "use me, I wont tell". Needless to say, I was overwhelmed and eventually gave in. I reckon I could get it lower but I think the dewback skin has held it back.
How do you get a "bag load" of MH DNA? I just picked up ranger, in part, so I could find the damn things.Of course, I don't spend as much time on Endor as I probably should, but...
droid327
Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:01 am
#12
merek harvester, a deliciously juicy tidbit used in all kinds of Mediterranean and Northern Spanish DNA recipes.
Oh and Zad, what kinda respawn rate are you seeing at the KMH if you're going there regularly still ?
Message Edited by droid327 on 01-23-2005 09:02 AM
Halthron
Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:45 pm
#13
King Merek Harvester
And unless it's changed really recently, it's about 2 hours.
And unless it's changed really recently, it's about 2 hours.
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