Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: 40 Crates
I think there's a bunch of thread out there not in the BE forum about this. I don't leave the BE forums much, so I wouldn't know where to look. They're insane out there.
NancyJ wrote:
The crate size issue comes up a lot over in the corres forum and basically the answer is 'no' I think the reasoning goes something like this: increasing crate sizes makes it easier to mass produce and hoarde items and benefits monopolies or something like that
true, increasing crate size does make it easier to mass produce/hoarde items, but considering that most BE's have full runs going straight to a chef, i also find it hard to believe this would be a horrible idea, at least for BE's...i've talked to some of my chef friends who have trouble making full runs of some things because they have to fill all the slots in their factories with subcomponents, then wait a day for some of the input hopper to empty, then fill it back up. I'm sure they'd be fine only having to deal with one crate of stuff. Moreover, (from the BE perspective) it's a huge pain to have a vendor, much less to have it stocked. personally, i use my vendor for storage mostly, but the idea of not being able to hold more than 2-4 full runs of chef suppliments is extremely frustrating.
i'm not quite sure that the devs realize this, but the way the game is set up monopolies benefit great from the current system. I'm fairly certain that 3/4 of the people in my guild have an alt, and a few people i know even have 2. Then there's the lot trades that happen, so the "big businesses" are also commonly people who have 1-3 lot trades going so that they can (given the resources) run factories continually and meet demand. the idea of keeping monopolies from becoming overwhelming sounds good on paper, but i'm sure if 4 or 5 crafters got together and decided that they wanted to ostresize a guild or groupthey could do it with relative ease, or if they wanted to ruin the economy by dropping prices lower than their competition could deal with they could very easily run other people out of business.
just my 2 credits
Grozzer
MBE/Sentinel
NancyJ wrote:
The crate size issue comes up a lot over in the corres forum and basically the answer is 'no' I think the reasoning goes something like this: increasing crate sizes makes it easier to mass produce and hoarde items and benefits monopolies or something like that
Hmmm. I thought factories were intended to make it easier to mass produce items. While increasing crate size might make it easier to hoard items, I'm not sure I understand how that would adversely affect the economy or player balance. People are still limited by the availability of resources, and resource hoarding is a bigger problem than hoarding of manufactured goods.
The downside is that chefs refuse to buy product, demanding schematics or creating their own BE alt. It seems that THAT is adversely affecting player economy.
Since a BE is not able to make anything for direct consumption by a player independently of another crafter, all BE items have to be transported from the BE to the next crafter and stored by either the BE or the crafter until ready for use. The only way a full factory run can be made available on a vendor is by putting it in a backpack, making a 41 item withdrawal necessary.
It certainly doesn't seem to make sense that BE products come in smaller crates than doctors.
BTW, Nancy, I quoted your message, but clearly I'm responding to the developer perspective, not to your message itself or the fact that you brought that perspective to us. I really appreciate your work.
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 11-14-2004 03:08 PM
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:
What Nancy said is exactly what they told us at fanfest. That crate size, factory speed, and storage were all essentially meant as deterrents to monopolies (they seem to be paranoid about monpolies). But what you guys say is right, to a point. It's still very possible to have a monoply now, and it's even more powerful because the barries are so high. Lots of lots, plus multiple accounts, plus master merchant, plus lots of time to play the game = a pretty powerful monopoly.
I think though that we should probably all look at it this way: when we are busy complaining that "we just can't meet demand because... ", remember that everyone else is complaining about the exact same thing. So your assumption that should that "problem" be corrected you'll now suddenly be able to meet all that demand that you are frustrated that you are not able to meet now, may in fact be false. If the devs were to suddenly say "ok, you win" and give you what you want (more meat, more storage, faster factories, larger crates) who is to say that you'll get that business, or even keep the business you have now? It may very well go to an undercutting competitor who now with the extra capacity can snap all that up. So anyhow, be a little careful what you wish for. Having such barriers I think does have a silver lining. Particularly for those that aren't "powergamers".
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 11-14-2004 03:08 PM
I honestly don't think increasing the crate size would result in more powerful players. I might decrease the incentive for chefs to make their own BE alt as a supplier. But from SOE's perspective, such an alt might be a good thing, since it means another subscription. The main thing it might do is to decrease frustration within the game. Challenge is fun. Frustration is just frustration. Actually, I think the number of BE's in the game dropping and the number posting on these forums might be a bigger red flag than all our posted thoughts combined.
As far as crate size goes, I'd be happy to see anyone of any profession increase crate size. The limitation of 1000 per factory run, factory time, and availability of resources are still limitations.
I'm also not under the misimpression that posting an opinion here might have much effect on the game anyway. SOE has made it clear that they are doing the programming and designing, and we are just players and in charge of writing the documentation.
Hehehe. The more I play it, the more I'm convinced that SWG is programmed entirely by right-brain people. The designs, the graphics, the music, the combat sequences--the right brain features--are all superb. The left brain part is lacking: documentation, spelling, grammar, great quests, and good story lines. (although some of the village quests are beginning to make me reconsider.) The use of "loose" for "lose" by Peamos jerks me right out of immersion every time I exchange XP.
Perhaps they need to hire a couple of people without computer-programming as part of their resume to give a little balance.
Oh, and as an aside: I knew the developer Tiggs from TSO. I think she's a great addition to the staff, and someone with just that balance I am talking about.
Hylidex,
Yea, I came from TSO as well, and I met a "tigger" in game there during beta (she had a place in Alphaville, "The community center" or something like that,who was some kind of moderator type person (very nice person too). I'm wondering if it was her.
Anyhow, I don't necessarily disagree with you. I don't think crate size increase would have a monumental effect. But it's just that "easier" often translates into "able to make more" which can translate into "powergamer serves more people, little guy serves less people". That's all.
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:
Hylidex,
Yea, I came from TSO as well, and I met a "tigger" in game there during beta (she had a place in Alphaville, "The community center" or something like that,who was some kind of moderator type person (very nice person too). I'm wondering if it was her.
Anyhow, I don't necessarily disagree with you. I don't think crate size increase would have a monumental effect. But it's just that "easier" often translates into "able to make more" which can translate into "powergamer serves more people, little guy serves less people". That's all.
Tiggs is indeed Tigger from TSO. I was happy to see her join the SWG team. (Although the Team Comments section makes it clear, she verified that fact to me in e-mail.)
"Easier" in many cases does translate into "able to make more." Shorter shuttle waits meant more time available for hunting or crafting. Quicker travel times first on mounts, then on vehicles, has the same effect.
But easier can also mean less frustrating. In the case of crate sizes, having to free up 67% of one's inventory space in order to transport a load of nutrients is more of a frustration than some sort of balancing feature. I always think of myself as the little guy you mention. I have only one account, and I play when I have the time on only one server. The only way I make it work is by having good cooperation with several other players. This means I can't just go get my combat character every time I need meat or get blown away because I got tefed in the imperial crackdown. I am all for good balance.
I also think that these forums are a good opportunity to speculate on which features of the game actually help promote that balance and which are merely frustrations.
As a lighteraside, my weakling character somehow has managed to accumulate negative CorSec faction points. The other day, I was killed four times while trying to enter the Tyrenia starport. The last two required very little on the CorSec's part, since I was so injured from cloning that one shot pretty much did me in. I'd have gone elsewhere, but my ship was parked there. In the end, I had to take the shuttle to the starport just to get in. I nearly died laughing when the CorSecs spawned and attacked me at the SHUTTLEPORT, too.