Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Experimentation = lower CL?
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JesusFreke
Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:06 am
#1
Here are a couple of builds I did, in order to document/test this out. This is a repost, but I thought I would go ahead and put it in it's own thread.
the first pet, which I experimented normally, came out like this
CL10
H: 10658
A: 8917
M: 5237
60% special to kinetic, vuln to everything else
spd: 2.27
To Hit: .21
dam: 140-150
mild poison
intimidate
ranged: no
And here's a pet using the same recipe, with no experimentation at all
CL *16*
H: 6688
A: 6655
M: 4429
60% kin special resist, vuln to everything else
spd: 2.27
to hit:.25
dam: 130-140
mild poison
intimidate
ranged: no
And, here's how I created the first one
malkloc bull - malkloc bull - female kwi - gaping spider - gaping spider
initial combine = 329322403371046633633481137
maxed physique (8 points), rest into prowess(8 points)
final template stats = 5031184214531046633633481137
then, skined it and sampled it, then
merek harvester - merek harvester - malkloc bull - 1rst gen - 1rst gen
initial combine = 4502684453182278737422725166
maxed physique (3 points I believe), then 2 points into prowess (had one failure, that dropped endurance and cleverness)
final combine =6004485483322271737422725166
and from that I got creature 1 (CL10)
same recipe for the second creature, just no experimentation. Here are the stats of first and second gen templates
gen 1 = 278322623351056533033178133
gen 2 = 3782363983002188437122324157
and from that I got creature 2 (CL16)
Commentary:
There are 2 things in the build of the first creature that could have affected its CL negatively, with regards to the 2nd creature. First, I did have 1 experimentationfailure, which lowered endurance/cleverness, and 2nd, it has a slightly lower tohit than the 2nd creature.
However, the 2nd creature has less health, action, and mind, as well 10 less dam.
The only conclusion I can draw from this is that somehow experimentation actually decreased the CL, or somehow negatively affected some value/ratio that is used in the calculation of CL.
Cephalo
Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:17 pm
#2
Did you experiment on Psychology? I definately get lower CLs when I experiment that to max.
JesusFreke
Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:05 pm
#3
I experimented no more and no less than what I said in the post 
But no, I generally don't experiment on psychology (for nonch pets, at least). I'll have to play around with that one too.
Dremvek
Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:51 pm
#4
Did that CL stick when the pet was tamed on the first one? CL 10 looks awfully low for a pet with 60% kinetic and 140 dmg, esp with HAM that high. I'm guessing it will go to a much higher CL when someone attempts to tame it.
Kevm
Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:05 pm
#5
Dremvek wrote:
Did that CL stick when the pet was tamed on the first one? CL 10 looks awfully low for a pet with 60% kinetic and 140 dmg, esp with HAM that high. I'm guessing it will go to a much higher CL when someone attempts to tame it.
It will probably stay. The devs know that these types of pets are being made and they've said they will be adjusted in the future. The validity check should change these but due to a bug it isn't catching these monsters.
JesusFreke
Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:49 pm
#6
If you give a rifleman a 900maxdam 1.5spd rifle with heavy armor piercing, and told them that it was going to change soon because the devs thought it was too powerful, would you seriously expect them not to use it? No, of course not So, why shouldn't we make 11k health 60% kin resist nonch pets, while we can? There's no use of any exploit in making them.. I didn't see anything in the eula that says you can't use xxxx recipe because it makes pets that are too powerful.
So, why shouldn't we make 11k health 60% kin resist nonch pets, while we can? There's no use of any exploit in making them.. I didn't see anything in the eula that says you can't use xxxx recipe because it makes pets that are too powerful.ok, sorry for the rant. Glad I got that off my chest.
now, back to the topic of discussion in this thread..the fact that I got a lower CL with experimentation than I did without it.
Interesting result? very. It may provide a glimpse into the mysterious workings of how CL is calculated. Or, am I the only one obsessed with trying to figure out this lastmajor piece of the BE puzzle?
Joilhath
Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:00 pm
#7
Yes I'm sure we all would like to figure it out but I have to say you really are using a very bad example. We all know these pets are not something that was meant to be createdso why use them as an example for cl and experimentation?
JesusFreke
Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:49 am
#8
That's exactly what makes them a good example. What is it about the way the current system calculates CL that makes these have such a low CL?
They (assumedly) follow the same rules that all the other pets do. Their health is determined by the hardiness * 15 + dex * 3 formula, their damage is approximately equal to .8 * pow, etc. Why should their CL not use the same system as what is used for all the other BE pets?
JesusFreke
Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:21 pm
#9
Heh. sorry. I guess the structure of my post was a bit confusing.
Cephalo
Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:20 am
#10
JesusFreke wrote:I experimented no more and no less than what I said in the post
You didn't really say in the post. You said, "experimented normally".
Yeah you did. Never mind.
Message Edited by Cephalo on 07-08-2004 12:21 PM
Dremvek
Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:15 pm
#11
I'm sorry if my comment was taken as a flame or insult. I was just curious if the CL stuck or you got that icky "invalid pet" dialog when it was tamed. I personally don't see any reason why we shouldn't be using or selling pets that aren't as intended. The devs have mentioned in the last couple weeks that 2000+ point doc buffs, 80% armor resists and 1 second rifle speeds aren't intended either. That doesn't mean that people who buff or use armor are exploiters, it just means that the game mechanic will likely be tweaked at some point in the future.
This is just a quirk with an open-ended crafting system. The more variables you put in, the more "Fancy" you make it, the more unintended consequences will appear.
JesusFreke
Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:14 pm
#12
My rant wasn't directed towards you or anyone else in particular for that matter. The subject came up, and I needed to get it off my chest
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