Bio Engineer Archive

Thread: Unexpected Plea from a Holo-Grinding BE

Animi
Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:22 am
#1

I'll admit it. I started grinding BE becausea little blue cube told me to. The funny thing is, I'm going to keep BE after I've mastered it, so long as the Devs don't change the system too radically to prevent "uber" (a/k/a "cowardly") non-ch pets.


The reason I want to keep BE is because it is the ONLY crafting profession in ANY MMO, that I'm aware of, where the crafters can actually create ONE-OF-A-KIND products.


Think about it. Every other profession in the game makes IDENTICAL products. The only difference between Weaponsmith A and Weaponsmith B is the type of materials they have acquired and whether or not A has SEAs giving him or her more experimentation points than B has.


Yes, krayt tissues and other loot items can be used by A or B to make a one of a kind item, but the fact is the product would be the EXACT SAME no matter who made it. The system is defined by the statistics of the materials and the special loot items used. They are NOT defined by the skill or persistance of the crafter.


The BE crafting system, on the other hand, is completely organic. Yes, there are some confines that need to be worked within, but a painstaking BE can truly create one of a kind animals. Multi-generational DNA sampling as well as the random statistical nature of DNA sampled from wild creatures means that no two bio-engineeredpets in this game will be identical. Through careful experimentation and refinement, a BE can breed in exactly those characteristics sought and breed out those unneeded.


This, in my mind, is an amazing achievement for a crafting system. If only the other professions worked this way.


Which brings me to my plea to the developers:



Please don't impose artifical constraints and limitations on the current BE crafting system. Other than the limits currently in place, please don't set hard caps on HAM and other creaturestatistics based solely on creature level.

I will acknowledge thatsome of the pets being created under the current system APPEAR overpowered, but I have tried a couple of the 8K/.... HAM creatures in battle and they are complete wimps. They run at the first sign of danger and do a very poor job of tanking MOBs. As soon as I start attacking the MOB, it turns away from my pet and focuses all of it's attention on me, since my pet refuses to do any damage.


A well balanced pet, one that doesn't run from trouble and who doesn't do too much damage,is possible under the constraints of the current system, but the HAM is much lower than some of the creatures people are suggesting are overpowered. The fact is, a 3K/2K/2K HAM pet with a decent courage level and low damage does a much better job tanking MOBs than the 8K cowards some people are making. When customers start realizing this fact, the market for the "uber cowards" will dry up as people seek more balanced non-ch pets.


Accordingly, it is my hope the developers will let the buyer market sort this issue out, rather than turning BEs into another weaponsmith profession. Let the BEs make their 9K cowards if they want. If the price to pay for getting rid of the ability to make such pets is to impose drastic and artifical statisticalcaps based on creature level, then I say no thank you.


Let us keep the most inovative crafting system ever created in an MMO. Don't change us into just another crafting profession where everyone makes the same thing.


Comments?



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Factol_Pentar
Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:30 am
#2






Animi wrote:

I'll admit it. I started grinding BE becausea little blue cube told me to. The funny thing is, I'm going to keep BE after I've mastered it,






Hehe,


I have been thinking the same thing, I enjoy traking down and trying to create my own designs, this is also why I have never given up CH fully, there is something about finding that right creature to sample or tame.


I really think it's a cool prof, but does anyone ever think the demand for BE pets will fade?


I already have requests for Bantha now that they can be mounts.


Alli.








Allieria Moonstrider
Done Dec 17th
To much has changed


milbot
Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:48 am
#3

I don't see any harm in capping CL10 and below pets. If the pet runs, just spam attack, he'll join the fight again. At the end of the day I don't think the formula for making CL10 and below pets has really changed that much, so there's no huge challenge to it.


In my mind the fun is creating the CH pets. There's a lot more you can play with and if you can get the stats of a standard BE CL30 pet into a CL20 pet you've really achieved something and created a killer pet for the people who should have it, the CH's.


Play at the top end, there's alot more to it



---------------------------------------------
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ArthurDentOnBria
Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:53 am
#4


Animi,


I think it was certainly the intention of the developers to not impose artificial caps or limitations or such on creatures, and I think in general they did an excellent job of creating a challenging and fun system to craft in. The problem is that it is still buggy, and it's complex. I do hope that the developer(s) can get to the root of the problems, and fix those, but if they can't I'd say we really do need such limitations. You can argue a 4k HAM CL 10 critter is fine. 5k? 6k? 10k? light armor? 50% kinetic? 100 damage? 200 damage? No matter how hard you argue it, at some point you have to conclude that it's out of hand. Instead of trying to understand the system, you are reduced to trying to reproduce the bugged behavior, which of course not only hurts the BE profession, but is also against TOS. So anyhow, I don't think anyone wants these silly "invalid pet checks", much less all the CL adjustment stuff or any of that baloney, but I think that's probably the best they can do unless they can clean up this system to the point where none of these types of bugs exist.

Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 03-01-2004 09:53 AM



ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%


Scorus
Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:12 am
#5

It is the only crafting system in any MMO where you don't have a recipe that you have to follow laid out in front of you. I think it is truly revolutionary in that respect, though I'm not sure the devs themselves actually realize that. If they did then I would expect more publicity on it, as it is they haven't even written documentation for it.



Scorus
NancyJ
Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:23 am
#6

Anime - I dont suppose you're in a position to battle first gen 4k/3k/2k against one of these 'uber' pets?

I've been meaning to do this but I've just not got around to it - I think its something the devs need to see.

If we can show some combat logs and prove that the 'uber' pets arent all that they seem to be then we can maybe stop all these nerfs and get on with our profession.

I'd personally love it if the courage stat showed on the pet - it would really help the customer pick the best pet for the job.

Come on people, do we really want our Non-CH pets to be nerfed below a pre-droidlove Probot?!




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Animi
Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:33 am
#7






NancyJ wrote:
Anime - I dont suppose you're in a position to battle first gen 4k/3k/2k against one of these 'uber' pets?





Unfortunately, I'm not in such a position. I might be able to find someone who can help me out, but unfortunately my game time is really limited so I doubt I would have enough time to thouroughly test it out.


It is surprising, isn't it, that the Devs haven't drummed up more interest in BE, considering the unique nature of its crafting system? The magnitude of it just recently hit me. I mean, really, it's a milestone as far as MMO crafting systems are concerned. Too bad it will probably never get the attention it deserves. Anyone who really loves crafting should pick up BE to see how creative they really can be.


It's amazing, really. I just hope they don't nerf it into another generic crafting profession where everyone is making the same creatures, regardless of the DNA used.





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Nemthang
Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:29 pm
#8



The complexity and custom crafting process forBE is exactly what drew me to it. I echo your sentiments on the novelty of this completely. I do wish some customers realized the work that goes into creating a creature to exact specifications, but let's face it, they are used to buying FWGs and Heavy Harvesters.


A couple of other points. First of all, if you don't think making great CL10 pets is as challenging as making a CL35 light armored tank, then stop following the "perfect 10" recipe and start experimenting more. I can crank them out in my sleep now, but I have spent a lot of time and research getting to this point. From my perspective, creating a top end CL isn't any more challenging.


Second, I disagree with those that say a CL10 uber tank (i.e., 10k/5k/5k HAM 60% kinetic like I'm making) is any less effective than a 1st gen CL10 that is 4k/3k/2k and I am in a position to test this. So I will. I think the shell of the creature plays a large role in this behavior. I've noticed that Gurrecks and Dewbacks in particular attack until almost dead, while other pets like durnis, gnorts, grondas, etc. run a lot more. In fact, I gave up my wild-tamed War Gronda because the darn thing *always* broke combat even when at more than 50% HAM. Snorbals do this too.


Lastly, just for clarification, I agree that CL10 tanks that are 10k/5k/5k and 60% kinetic are too powerful and should be balanced. To Nancy's point, they are certainly not the next Death Star, but there is not enough difference in combat effectiveness between these and higher end creatures (wild or BE). This is the real issue and not the fact that anyone can use them in my opinion - the people it really disadvantages are the creature handlers. Composite or ubese armoraffect combat effectiveness FAR more than a dumb CL10 tank. I am seeing a real decrease in Master Creature Handlers, and I bet this is a contributing factor.


It will be interesting to see what combat power players with no skill investment will be allowed to wield after the next droid patch hits.

Tal-N
Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:31 pm
#9





Please don't impose artifical constraints and limitations on the current BE crafting system. Other than the limits currently in place, please don't set hard caps on HAM and other creaturestatistics based solely on creature level.



Fact is that the CL rating system was designed for the sole purpose to provide solid barriers on power and stats for the mobs and pets in the game, the devs are currently working on the combat droids to make them more inline with what they consider to be valid CL10 stats. Personally I'm watching that information very closely since it's provides a very solid basis for what we can expect from the valid clones once they fix this system. The flaw is that we're not seeing clones that abide directly to the CL calculations, there's loopholes occouring with false or errornous calculations.


Put simply, you're asking for the CL rating system to be removed. That isn't going to happen.





Tal-N Chratk
Ahazi Master Bioengineer / Hunt Master / Rifleman
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Wokka
Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:54 pm
#10






ArthurDentOnBria wrote:


Animi,


I think it was certainly the intention of the developers to not impose artificial caps or limitations or such on creatures, and I think in general they did an excellent job of creating a challenging and fun system to craft in. The problem is that it is still buggy, and it's complex. I do hope that the developer(s) can get to the root of the problems, and fix those, but if they can't I'd say we really do need such limitations. You can argue a 4k HAM CL 10 critter is fine. 5k? 6k? 10k? light armor? 50% kinetic? 100 damage? 200 damage? No matter how hard you argue it, at some point you have to conclude that it's out of hand.





That was a truly intelligent post. It was worded a much better way than saying "where do you draw the line"?


Wokka-wokka
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