Bio Engineer Archive

Thread: The Unofficial Top Five BE issues

meroc
Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:25 am
#1


As Talthazar seems to be MIA (maybe helping out with doing the BEGuide hopefully??!), I figured it'd be helpful if someone updated the Top 5 BE issues for April(just in case a Dev is sitting around looking for something to do )


This list is a compilation of the issues in a thread started by Talthazar: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=58662&page=1


It's worth reading through the thread, as some people have some interesting "spin" on some of these ideas that has been left out here for brevities sake.


Please forgive me if you had an issue in the Official Top 5 that I've left off this list, but there were a lot of issues postedabout, but most were just a variation on a theme, so I've tried to narrow it down a bit to the specific theme it would fit into.


I think most people know how this works, but for those that don't, have a read through the issues below, pick out your 5 most hated/favorite ones and put them in a replyin order of importance to you. That way it will be easy forthe "powers that be"to compile the ones that we think need fixing the most.


So, without further ado, I present to you the Unofficial BE Top 5 Issues:



1. Critical fails while making creatures and Sampling fails still seems tobe "broken". More testing needs to be done under various conditions for the dev's to narrow down the cause. We should not loose DNA and/or templates on Critical Failures as it can take a lot of real life time to collect high end DNA.


2. Ability to see the name and CL on the DNA samples and CL on the templates as we make a creature. Even a "guesstimate" by the system would be good.


3. We were told there was an advanced guide to BE on the way. The timeframe mentioned has been and gone. While we understand how busy the Dev's probably are, it would relieve a lot of frustration for BE's to have this information. At the very least we would like guidelines as to what is a valid pet for a given level.


4. Harvesting dead creatures (after being sampled). BE's use a lot of meat and it seems a waste that we are unable to do this. It's also unlikely to upset the economy. Considering the rate at which things die in this manner, it would take a considerable time to accrue enough meat to actually make a "run" of something. It would, however, at least "help out".


5. More: Creatures (Snakes and Fliers for example), Colors and Variety of both Tissues and creature abilities (specials etc).


6. DNA storage still needs to be adressed in some way. "Blood Sampling" is one idea that has been tossed around in these forums and it'd be nice to get an official "yay" or "nay" as to it's "doability".


7. Removal of the sample cap. With the checks already inplace on what we can make, there doesn't really seem to be any good reason why we are limited to sampling up to CL 75. With the Skill Mod going to 100, it would at least make sense to raise the CL cap to match that. This would also allow more variety in the high level DNA we can use (currently pretty well limited to Mutant Rancor).


8. "Pet Slicing". The ability for BE's to "slice" a pet similar to what Smugglers can do for items. I'd be interested to hear if the Dev's think it's a plausable/usable idea. I believe this would help both us and CH's, so it'd be double the payoff for the Dev's.


9. Pet "Size" options. It was mentioned that this was going to be added with the BE revamp, but was pulled at the last minute due to technical issues. Have/Are these issues being addressed?


10. Redeed tamed pets - Be able to raise a CL 1 baby up to max and sell it fully grown. (Partner this with CH for interdependence?)


11. Ability to harvest more meat, possibly by the use of meat/fish/mollusk/etc farms.


12. Introduction of BE-specific skill tapes/attachments. +experimentation etc. Most other "classes" have them, but BE's were missed, possibly due to them being an afterthough?


13. Add a valid and reasonable category for pet deeds on the bazaar as well as on vendors.


14. A decrease in Chef additive ingredients. Why in the world does my equivalent to A-1 Steak Sauce take more resources to make than the actual plate of food itself?


15. General BE content! BE-specific quests and unique schematics/tools/equipment similar to what is in place for weapon and armor makers.


16. Info on Secret Research Data. IsSRD even in game?


17. A growth halting "stim", which would allow us to freeze a pets growth.


18. Sampling Mind cost is too high.


19. BE's should have their name on the final created creature like the other crafting professions...


20. Being stuck in the sample animation while your target takes off on you... it's running, you're stuck animating... and suddenly you have to run yourself to catch up and hope you can get close enough again in time to finish the sample.


21. Fix AoE special attacks, there's no reason why a BE made creature shouldn't be able to have them.


22. Let us put DNA template schematics in a factory. (DNA can't be identical, but same quality/type can be used in the factory)


23. "Step down" ability so we can experiment stats in reverse (i.e. we take fortitude to 580 and we need it at 501)


24. The "resists" on the DNA samples should be separated into two groups - Effectiveness and Special Protection.


25. Stop schematics being tradeable. Players who don't care about a crafting profession (sometimes hologrinders, sometimes pet makers who dont care about tissues) can allow others to exploit them to bypass the genuine crafters. Why bother with crafting or an economy if people give things away free?



Meroc

Taipan's Pet's and Bio Tissues, Anchorhead, Tatooine 430 -5000, Ahazi
Master Bio Engineer, Master Creature Handler, Part time Pistoleer.
BECalc 2.0, the Clone and Tissue Pricing tool for Bio Engineers
Version 1.x mirrored on SWG Warcry
meroc
Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:29 am
#2

2. Ability to see the name and CL on the DNA samples and CL on the templates as we make a creature.


3. advanced guide to BE.

6. DNA storage.

7. Removal of the sample cap.

1. Criticaland Sampling fails.




Meroc

Taipan's Pet's and Bio Tissues, Anchorhead, Tatooine 430 -5000, Ahazi
Master Bio Engineer, Master Creature Handler, Part time Pistoleer.
BECalc 2.0, the Clone and Tissue Pricing tool for Bio Engineers
Version 1.x mirrored on SWG Warcry
AnakinsClone
Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:08 am
#3



Those are great Meroc, looks like you hit all of the key issues. I can only pick 5....?


1. Critical fails while making creatures and Sampling fails still seems tobe "broken". More testing needs to be done under various conditions for the dev's to narrow down the cause. We should not loose DNA and/or templates on Critical Failures as it can take a lot of real life time to collect high end DNA.

Yeah, what he said!


2. We were told there was an advanced guide to BE on the way. The timeframe mentioned has been and gone. While we understand how busy the Dev's probably are, it would relieve a lot of frustration for BE's to have this information. At the very least we would like guidelines as to what is a valid pet for a given level.

The fact we were told this 2 months ago is what really bugs me. They haven't said one word to us since.


3. We were told there was an advanced guide to BE on the way. The timeframe mentioned has been and gone. While we understand how busy the Dev's probably are, it would relieve a lot of frustration for BE's to have this information. At the very least we would like guidelines as to what is a valid pet for a given level.

It's just silly there's a cap for us... CH's can't use a creature that's over 70 anyway. This would just give us more diversity in what we can sample


4. Harvesting dead creatures (after being sampled). BE's use a lot of meat and it seems a waste that we are unable to do this. It's also unlikely to upset the economy. Considering the rate at which things die in this manner, it would take a considerable time to accrue enough meat to actually make a "run" of something. It would, however, at least "help out".

All the meat we just waste... and there's no reason for it.


5. DNA storage still needs to be adressed in some way. "Blood Sampling" is one idea that has been tossed around in these forums and it'd be nice to get an official "yay" or "nay" as to it's "doability".

I've got 2 small houses full of dna (plus 3 storage droids). Why are we the only crafting profession with this type of liability??


So, ifi had to pick 5, I guess those would be them. I'd also like to see:


The class of the pet while we're crating. It's too much of a crapshoot as it is.

The BE's name on the pets we make.

AOE specials working.

Oh, and hell here's my #6


6.Let us adjust the size of our pets. We've just seen the April Fools Day 10% Krayt Dragons, so we know they can already do this. Why can we not have the ability to adjust the size of our pets? Either a slider type deal, or a small, medium, large arrangement.


That's it... for now. Great work Meroc, I'm glad there's still some of us trying to get some answers.

Message Edited by AnakinsClone on 04-05-2004 09:21 AM



Kuma's Pet Shop - Closed forever...
Albion_DeCrappa
Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:35 am
#4


There is nothing wrong with creature critical fails. I ran 100 templates usingthe same good resources and all High to VH quality yard trash DNA. What the Devs said is true, I got about 5% critical fails. Every crafting profession has to deal with critical fails. To gain something you have to be prepared to lose something. anyway... Here are my top 5 issues.


1) We need to know what is legal and what is not as far as cloning goes.
2) DNA storage
3) BE clothing and Armor attachments.
4) Secret Research Data
5) New BE Corispondant!
...
6) How about a tissue that gives you a bonus to skillpoints? Only get them while your wearing that clothing, and when you take the clothing off it deletes a skill randomly unless you make sure you are below the 250 skillpoint cap.
7) What about BE Tissues for Weapons and Armor?





Message Edited by Albion_DeCrappa on 04-06-2004 08:33 AM



-Al (+0 Master Bio-Engineer / Master Swordsman and Miner for Hire.)
AlbyCorp Bio-ComponentsNew Coventry, Corellia (-701, 324) Intrepid Galaxy
80% Explorer, 80% Socializer, 40% Killer, 0% Achiever
Schrodinger's cat is dead... not dead... no, dead... wait, not dead...
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0
We'll never forget the 8/19 bannings, a day of injustice!
Albion_DeCrappa
Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:49 am
#5

This we DO NOT want!


3) Any guide to BE that defines the creature cloning formula. All I need is some day old BE making pets just as well as me because he popped some formula into MS Excel.


4) We are getting a DNA sample from the creature, what more do you want? You can have one or the other, Meat or DNA. although I think it should be Meat, Milk, or DNA. But they're giving us a gift by allowing us to Milk and Sample/Harvest.


7) Removal of the sample cap. CH has been nerfed enough, so much so that I can't sell 25 count crates of 33/1162 Pet Stim Cs on Dantooine for 35k. Alls we need is every player picking up CH so they can walk around with a preverbial Krayt dragon.


10) This game is not meant to be Solod. If you want to play a solo game go play an Infocom game.


11) That's what Rangers are for, they collect more meat then the standard character. You should have enough SP to take BE and Ranger.


18) Lower mind cost? Tell that to carbineers!


22) Putting DNA templates in a factory would probably require a full revamp of factories. Since factories require same resources to basically make clones of the schematic used. To be able to make clones or DNA templates in a factory would mean that all the DNA samples used in a certain statistic would have to be exactly the same. And we all know that's not possible.


23) Now this is an excellent idea!


25) No way. I don't want to have to take Master Doctor to be able to make Pet Stims of any quality. Come on, really, what Master Doctor is going to waste 5 days of his factory time to make you 1000 ALS, 2000 ABEC, and 1000 ACRDM? No, schematics should remain tradable.





-Al (+0 Master Bio-Engineer / Master Swordsman and Miner for Hire.)
AlbyCorp Bio-ComponentsNew Coventry, Corellia (-701, 324) Intrepid Galaxy
80% Explorer, 80% Socializer, 40% Killer, 0% Achiever
Schrodinger's cat is dead... not dead... no, dead... wait, not dead...
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0
We'll never forget the 8/19 bannings, a day of injustice!
Seiryuu
Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:55 am
#6

1) The crafting system needs to work "as intended".
2) Critical fails. (The same argument for Architects applies to us because of time.)
3) Stacking and storage. Let a lair count as the same resource?
4) Addition of skill tapes.
5) [Random Pick]



-----
Visit www.swgcreatures.com for all your creature needs.
Tell 'em Lantyssa sent you!

Math got you down? Need a tissue? Try my Chef and Tailor Tissue Calculators!

Looking for a special? Try this Excel spreadsheet on Special Abilities.
NJ62
Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:20 pm
#7

Ok, we have achieved stickiness. Anyone who posted on this top 5 thread please copy and paste your responses onto this new thread here. I had to pick one or the other...



n'Jessi
former correspondent, former player

All your hawtpants are belong to me.
www.swgtailor.com
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NancyJ
Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:27 pm
#8

cut and paste from the other thread - these are my new top 5 in light of the recent patch (the old list was pre-patch)

1 Pet validity - the new pet checks that were introduced in the last publish are unacceptable. Pets crafted after the publish should be valid and callable - it simple is unacceptable for us to work our butts off on a pet then have it declared invalid when the customer tries to tame it is a game breaker for pet crafters. Either make the CL allocation in pet crafting match the forumal used for checking pet validity - or remove it completely until you can.

#2 Mounts not responding to commands - this affects us as mounts are still popular pets and we have to face critisism from customers and accusations of selling them a duff pet because they have trained it as a mount and then it wont follow any other commands

#3 Fish and Eggs - Fish and eggs are still not collectable in usefull quantites, even catching every fish that bites it still can take take 4 hours to collect enough to make 10 stim D's. As for eggs, these are only used in making entertainer clothes - I see no need for them to be so difficult to obtain - entertainers is hardly an overpowered class that would be totally thrown out of balance if there were more BE clothes for them - as it is most popular entertainer outfits require large numbers of factory cloth, so much egg is wasted in the production of these clothes that they're not worth making.

#4 DNA Sampling - the failure rate at master is still too high and the range of High CL Creatures we can sample is limited to Reclusive Cavern Spider Queen (very long respawn), Gronda Juggernaught (very elusive) and Mutant Rancors. Raising the Cap to CL 100 would give us more options and variety in pet creations and would directly correlate with our DNA sampling skill mod meaning we could tell exactly what we can sample at what level.

#5 Critical Fails - BE crafting is unlike any other. For pet crafting we use unique DNA samples to make unique templates - we cannot use factories, we must create everything by hand and therefore suffer much more than any other crafting in terms of critical fails. Consetions were made for Jedi because they use difficult/dangerous to obtain unique Krayt Pearls and crystals in their saber crafting. I would like the same concessions applied to BE pets, we should not lose our templates when we crit fail. I would also like to retain the DNA but I know that's not going to happen.




Nyria's BioShop
-51 -5732 Tatooine
200m South of Anchorhead


Nyria - Farstar



0smspiff0
Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:51 pm
#9

"As for eggs, these are only used in making entertainer clothes - I see no need for them to be so difficult to obtain - entertainers is hardly an overpowered class that would be totally thrown out of balance if there were more BE clothes for them"


I'll sometimes use eggs in place of meat if I have better quality eggs though...


---


(in no particular order)


#1 Ability to get stacks of DNA rather than singles - thus we can play around with the DNA a little easier or do small factory runs (stacks of 1-5 would suffice)


#2 Be told the CL while creating the creature - durring experimentation. All other crafting (AFAIK) see the results of experimentation as they go - if a weaponsmith wants a particular damage/HAM weapon they can see that they are getting close. It would be nice to have this be an option (ideal) or easily hidden for those that like moer of a challenge of course :-)


#3 Make mollusk stack likeartisan sampling (I am fairly certain it stacks automatcially).


#4 increase the yeild of mollusks harvested - I once spet a day to get 3K of it (my feet were wrinkled at the end of it!).


#5 Invalid pet checks done at crafting (or rather make the pet have the correct level) not after training. WHat would happen if weaponsmiths sold guns that adjusted their stats on the first use?



No Sig for now... stay tuned
NancyJ
Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:59 pm
#10

Just adding 3 votes for my top 5 from the other thread heh - this is going to get confusing




Nyria's BioShop
-51 -5732 Tatooine
200m South of Anchorhead


Nyria - Farstar



PluG
Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:27 pm
#11

Here are my top 5:


#1. (12) Introduction of BE-specific skill tapes/attachments. +experimentation etc. Most other "classes" have them, but BE's were missed, possibly due to them being an afterthough?


Every class that can craft has these, except BE and smuggler.


#2.(1) Critical fails while making creatures and Sampling fails still seems tobe "broken". More testing needs to be done under various conditions for the dev's to narrow down the cause. We should not loose DNA and/or templates on Critical Failures as it can take a lot of real life time to collect high end DNA.


Make it like the architects, if we fail we get the resources back.

#3. (2) Ability to see the name and CL on the DNA samples and CL on the templates as we make a creature. Even a "guesstimate" by the system would be good.


This would be a big help and time saver.


#4. (21) Fix AoE special attacks, there's no reason why a BE made creature shouldn't


Make it so only the high level pets can get them, like 60+. That way high level pets can actually be better than their low level counterparts.


#5. (19) BE's should have their name on the final created creature like the other crafting professions...


This would be nice, make it so it has Object Creater: _____ when you examine a BE'ed pet. Nothing like a little advertisement.



Things i do NOT want to see happen: (I know this does not belong in the Top 5, butI am strongly against these issues that I felt I must post them.)


#1. (17) A growth halting "stim", which would allow us to freeze a pets growth.


This would make pets way overpowered. Halting a pure blood mutant rancor at CL10....


#2. (3) We were told there was an advanced guide to BE on the way. The timeframe mentioned has been and gone. While we understand how busy the Dev's probably are, it would relieve a lot of frustration for BE's to have this information. At the very least we would like guidelines as to what is a valid pet for a given level.


I do not want to see hologrinders make pets as good as or better than mine. I'm fine with the guidelines for the validity checks but not the actual formulas for the pets.





--------------------------------------------------------------------
Epak wuz here
Namrah
Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:52 pm
#12

1) Pet validity - If the deed says a CL then that should be the end of the story. This applies for CH and non CH pets.


2) Raise the sampling cap


3) DNA Storage of some kind.


4) Sampling/crafting skill bonuses in some form - Tapes, Chef Food, looted scematic items etc.


5) Better spread of crafting exp - I get the same exp for crafting a CL2 pet than I do for a CL70 one. Same with the tissues, the exp doesn't seem to go up as I get more complicated schematics
MGoldEagle
Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:34 pm
#13

1) DNA storage. I need another house for what I have.


2) Some type of personal validation ability, to see if what I've made can be used by a Non-CH.


3) CL listed in the Genetic Template while creating,so I can experiment accordingly.


4) Skill tapes, specifically one that will allow sampling of higher level creatures.


Can only think of 4, and can't remember the rest.


(Yep, I'm newer to the class, but I want to help out with what I can think of to help all the mainstays)





Aesy Iomia
Icar Iomia
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