Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: MrThallid's eMail conversation with a CSR about LVL10 Pets
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MrThallid
Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:23 am
#1
This conversation is a result of submitting a ticket in game. Please take note... CSRs do not have access to coding or direct access to developers. They help as best they can with theresourcesthey have available!
From MrThallid
The problem I have is that BE is one of the least documented professions in the game. Using in-game documentation and the crafting interface, you don't know how a specific DNA piece will affect the outcome of a crafted animal. An architect knows that they need materials with heat resist, shock resist, and unit toughness to make a good Mineral Mining Installation. The BE profession is not so fortunate when it comes to creatures.
The problem I have is that BE is one of the least documented professions in the game. Using in-game documentation and the crafting interface, you don't know how a specific DNA piece will affect the outcome of a crafted animal. An architect knows that they need materials with heat resist, shock resist, and unit toughness to make a good Mineral Mining Installation. The BE profession is not so fortunate when it comes to creatures.
I understand it is a draw to the profession that you get to experiment with creature development. I understand that SOE does not want, and will not, give us templates for making creatures. BUT when I made a level 10 creature with good stats, when I tried to tame it, it failed a validation and I had to choose to drop the stats or raise the level. Why was that? I did not do anything secret to make the creature. I did not use an exploit. I did not use a bug in the system to allow me to get better results.
If I can use the mechanics in the game to generate a creature outside of the range in which SOE wants lvl10 creatures to be, then SOE needs to disable the ability to do so, explain what a lvl10 should be and how to reliably create it, or take out the "re-evaluation" when taming until the process is fixed.
As a BE "crafter" and merchant, how can I sell a reliable product to a non-CH if there is a chance that the pet I make will not be able to be used by a non-CH after taming?
From CSR
In regards to your stated issue, I can understand and empathize with the obvious lack of documentation present in the Bio-Engineer crafting profession. The inability for a BE Crafter to determine if their newly created deed for a level 10 pet will need to be rebalanced upon taming is in-fact something that development is working upon.
In regards to your stated issue, I can understand and empathize with the obvious lack of documentation present in the Bio-Engineer crafting profession. The inability for a BE Crafter to determine if their newly created deed for a level 10 pet will need to be rebalanced upon taming is in-fact something that development is working upon.
After the previous re-balancing of the Bio-Engineer profession it became immediately apparent that the crafters could create pets level 10 or under that would perform as well and/or better as the then currently implemented pets, that were level 25+ and required their owner to have at least some Creature Handler skills. This implementation effectively made the first half of the Creature Handler skill set unnecessary, as you would only need the latter half if you wanted to receive a pet that was better than anything a Bio-Engineer could craft under level 10. In order to attempt at least a temporary rebalance, this system was implemented to hard cap level 10 pets to within their current restrictions as you have noted, if the pet exceeds these on the deed it would receive the stated interface for stat reduction or level increase upon taming.
The reason this measure is currently in place is not to put Bio-Engineers ‘in the dark’ about what they should and should not be able to create with their creatures. The system is currently behaving as such until the time and workforce necessary to correctly revise the crafting system and numbers in this system can be devoted, among the vast and various number of projects that are currently in development. Please understand that unfortunately, Customer Service is unable to assist in this matter as one we do not have any actual design documentation from development in regards to specific numbers on how the crafting system works, and two were we in possession of such information, we would not have the permissions to grant such information to our Customer Base as systems information of that sort is not publicly released.
I sincerely apologize that I can’t assist you more with this issue. I would suggest however, that the best and most pro-active way to seek a resolution for this matter is to fill out a ‘Submit Feedback’ form on the Star Wars Galaxies homepage, and encourage as many of your friends and fellow players to do so as well on this issue. I can assure you that these feedback requests are read and reviewed, and do count in the process used to determine which current projects receive priority attention by development.
Continued on next post...
Message Edited by MrThallid on 04-12-2004 10:56 AM
MrThallid
Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:27 am
#2
MrThallid's reply...
I can understand and appreciate the type of predicament this can put a CSR in and I want to thank you and [other CSR] for giving me an avenue to discuss this.
To continue this discussion, if you cannot provide the means to make reliable lvl10 pets, can you provide the range of stats that the validation check looks for so that when pricing a pet, BEs would know if they are truly lvl10?
I have a level 10 in my datapad. It's Health is in the 4k range, Action around 2500 and mind around 1700. It has a low kinetic resist (10% maybe 15%) and some special attacks. When I crafted a similar creature, tamed it, and tried to call it, it failed the validation. When the validation was done adjusting my pets stats down to the level it found acceptable for a level 10, no HAM stat was above 1000. This is the huge discrepancy that needs to be resolved. Why do I have an excellent level 10 pet that passed validation and one very similar pet fail the validation.
Please have someone go into the BE boards and read some of the posts. There was "an advanced guide to BE" promised a few months back and has never been mentioned since.
I can understand and appreciate the type of predicament this can put a CSR in and I want to thank you and [other CSR] for giving me an avenue to discuss this.
To continue this discussion, if you cannot provide the means to make reliable lvl10 pets, can you provide the range of stats that the validation check looks for so that when pricing a pet, BEs would know if they are truly lvl10?
I have a level 10 in my datapad. It's Health is in the 4k range, Action around 2500 and mind around 1700. It has a low kinetic resist (10% maybe 15%) and some special attacks. When I crafted a similar creature, tamed it, and tried to call it, it failed the validation. When the validation was done adjusting my pets stats down to the level it found acceptable for a level 10, no HAM stat was above 1000. This is the huge discrepancy that needs to be resolved. Why do I have an excellent level 10 pet that passed validation and one very similar pet fail the validation.
Please have someone go into the BE boards and read some of the posts. There was "an advanced guide to BE" promised a few months back and has never been mentioned since.
And Then Sent...
this is from the BE board...
Try making a CL10 animal using scyk and cu pa. You can make a 1.5K HAM, low resist, low damage animal. Its invalid. If you adjust the stats they go to 900 HAM and no resists and no damage. Adjust the level it goes to CL12.
this is from the BE board...
Try making a CL10 animal using scyk and cu pa. You can make a 1.5K HAM, low resist, low damage animal. Its invalid. If you adjust the stats they go to 900 HAM and no resists and no damage. Adjust the level it goes to CL12.
I can make a CL10 animal from voritor dasher and noxious kamarith resampling once. It will have 4K HAM, 20% to kinetic, 45-55 damage. Its valid. No adjusts necessary.
The CSR's say its working as intended. Maybe its us that are retarded. We're complaining because we can make uber animals
CSR's reply to my Reply...
In regards to your request for further information on this issue, I can attempt to try to bring some clarification to the situation at hand you have presented in this email. The reasoning behind the CL level 10 versions of a Scyk and a Cu pa having a 900 HAM No Resist / No Damage version at an adjusted level 10, where as a Voritor Dasher and Noxious Kamarith have approximately 4 times these stats and require no adjustment at level 10, is due to the regular Challenge Level of the creature type when found in the wild. Scyk’s and Cu pa’s on Tatooine have a relatively low level in comparison with higher challenge creatures such as the Voritors of Dantooine or the Kamariths of Dathomir. As well, some creatures have simply to high of a challenge level to support any level 10 version of themselves, such as Rancors and Grauls.
In regards to your request for further information on this issue, I can attempt to try to bring some clarification to the situation at hand you have presented in this email. The reasoning behind the CL level 10 versions of a Scyk and a Cu pa having a 900 HAM No Resist / No Damage version at an adjusted level 10, where as a Voritor Dasher and Noxious Kamarith have approximately 4 times these stats and require no adjustment at level 10, is due to the regular Challenge Level of the creature type when found in the wild. Scyk’s and Cu pa’s on Tatooine have a relatively low level in comparison with higher challenge creatures such as the Voritors of Dantooine or the Kamariths of Dathomir. As well, some creatures have simply to high of a challenge level to support any level 10 version of themselves, such as Rancors and Grauls.
Unfortunately, as I stated, I have no provided information in regards to the actual numbers that you could crunch on what you would sell as a level 10 pet. My best suggestion would be to research the highest Wild Challenge Level creature you can create a level 10 version of with your Bio Engineer skills, and then attempt to max the stats past validation, to find out what the max stats for a level 10 version of that creature are.
From the information presented to me, I’m fairly sure you could find a benchmark correlation between Wild Challenge Level and Bio-Engineered Challenge Level 10, although I can’t guarantee that such one exists, the correlation might simply be on each specific creature type, rather than on Creature Level.
I.E: if a pet in the wild had a CL of 25, a BE 10 CL version might have 1K HAM, with little to no resists, and for each extra WCL above 25 you would get 100 HAM and 1% - 2% resists more, so at 26 you would get 1100 HAM with 2% Resists, 27 WCL would garner a BE 10 CL with 1200 HAM and 3% resists, etc.
(*Please note those are not actual numbers, they are made up for illustration of a point.*)
I apologize that I can’t be of more assistance in this matter, but please understand I have no access to the development or design documentation on this process, if I did I would be able to better assist you with developing a working theory and process for determining such a status. Currently the information that I have provided you is that which I have collected from my fellow Customer Service Representatives in a Player view (I’m a master TKA/Doctor on my play account, not a Bio-Engineer by trade, although we have some who do play BE’s), other player’s, the forums, and you yourself.
I’m sorry if at the end of this message, you’re no closer to being able to determine how to accurately predict and anticipate what type of creatures you wish to engineer at level 10 to reliably sell to your customer base without fear of them receiving pet invalidation messages upon taming the deed. However, as a Customer Service Representative, with no access to development design documentation or code implementation, I don’t have much more inside information on what is required and what isn’t to make sure Bio-Engineered Level 10 Creatures pass validation, in regards to this situation.
I hope the information and speculation that I have provided you can assist you in your pursuit of this knowledge, and if you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate to reply and I will attempt to answer them to the best of my ability.
I askled if I could post our conversation and he responded with...
Feel free to post our correspondence, however, please make sure to note that the systems that I have described are not actual documented systems as I have attempted to denote, they are my Player perspective analysis of the situation. If I had available, and been able to discuss the actual system specifications with you, I would not have hesitated to do so, but unfortunately that information is unavailable to me.
In any event, as stated, feel free to relate this information, as long as appropriate disclaimers are noted.
I wish you luck in your future endeavors.
MrThallid
Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:34 am
#3
/bump
have you read this yet? Please "Submit Feedback" as suggested in CSRs reponse.
AnakinsClone
Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:46 pm
#4
Just tried filling out the form. There's a drop down category list to chose the profession the email is about. Bio Engineer isn't even on the list! Of all the professions in the game we're the only ones not listed.
... no wonder why we can't get any feedback. Dev's don't even know we're a profession.
Might try out that "Farmer" profession on that list though...
MrThallid
Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:31 am
#5
**Sheepish reply**
I must admit to have not yet getting around to the Submit Feedback part. After reading the above post, I went, saw what was in instead of BE and sent an eMail back to the CSR. I'll post the reply here.
asdartha
Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:56 pm
#7
My bf and i both submitted feedback to SOE about the BE validity issues. To date.. no response.. BTW i submitted under CH since we are not listed.
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