Bio Engineer Archive

excellent work sumo - i tried sorting out the percentages and ended up with a stack of papers covered in numbers, a big excel spreadsheet and me yelling at my monitor about some sort of strange new math.

I'm a pencil and paper kinda guy Kova, so you can guess what my desk looks like

I sort thru tons of papers til I find what looks promising for a formula, then use excel to crank out how well it fits... but the vast majority of my exploring is done with good old fashioned pencil, paper, calculator.

The DNA flakes out for many things.

The Graping Spider Hunter Comes to mind.
Level 44.

And Picket DNA.

Sure you can get the resists to cross the boundry and the shooting, but the specials and the armor...LOL.

Graping Spider Hunters have Armor, even with the best DNA and experiementation on any of the attribute I cant get the Armor to go to a clone.....

Probably becasue the stats for what ever reason on the some of the DNA are not even, like 700 for one thing and 300 for another.

But anywise...the DNA is very flakey....making templates is very interesting and p[roblematic...

Not that I mind too much that there is random variables, its just that the fact that it appears that SOme DNA react differently then others and gives incorrect stats that is annoying.

For example, certain reptiles on Dantooine give you ok DNA with a really weird Stat in its psychology of 1000+ and 900+ on the two linked stats....

Does it carry across....not all the time...sometimes....

Which leads to me to conclude that the stats on the DNA or else the experimentation has a huge error.

For example I made a real weak craeture the other that got armor, and no its not based on the physique as it had what about a combined total of 300 in it.

So anywise, did I use DNA with Armor, yes a single Graping Spider Hunter DNA sample.....So how the ARmor got there...random....total random...not really sure myself.
All the other samples where sub-standard.

By the way, made a Kimogilla from Capper spine flap DNA and it had worse stats then a spineflap..and it was level 40.

So I can only conclude that for some real bad reason some random fluctuation was put in on and beyond the normal random things we do from experimentation.

Unless the materials are doing something....but then I am not sure how that workls.

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Plageron wrote:
The DNA flakes out for many things.

The Graping Spider Hunter Comes to mind.
Level 44.

What is flaking out on the GSH DNA? think you might have some examples lower

And Picket DNA.

I have very strong suspicions that at least 1 type of picket DNA is doing the same stuff the Kamurith DNA is doing... giving very odd results.

Sure you can get the resists to cross the boundry and the shooting, but the specials and the armor...LOL.

Haven't covered specials or armor yet, other than very strong correlation between 500 Fortitude w/ armor samples generating armor in the clones.

Graping Spider Hunters have Armor, even with the best DNA and experiementation on any of the attribute I cant get the Armor to go to a clone.....Probably becasue the stats for what ever reason on the some of the DNA are not even, like 700 for one thing and 300 for another.

The problem I remember from GSH DNA is not being able to consistently put samples into the template that would satisfy the 500 Fortitude minimum calculations. Write some of your experiements down noting whats in what slot and let me look at it. All the problems I had was that I couldn't get the Fortitude high enough.

But anywise...the DNA is very flakey....making templates is very interesting and p[roblematic... Not that I mind too much that there is random variables, its just that the fact that it appears that SOme DNA react differently then others and gives incorrect stats that is annoying.

I'm thinking it is a whole lot less random than we think.... well beyond what other classes put up with on the levels of succeses. That randomness won't ever go away because it is afterall an experiment.

For example, certain reptiles on Dantooine give you ok DNA with a really weird Stat in its psychology of 1000+ and 900+ on the two linked stats....Does it carry across....not all the time...sometimes....Which leads to me to conclude that the stats on the DNA or else the experimentation has a huge error.

I've had pretty consistent results using voritor DNA... those the reptiles you mention? If not which ones and I"ll take a look at them this weekend. 1000's do throw these equations into fits and so do certain types of DNA with weird resist strings of 0's or hiddens.

For example I made a real weak craeture the other that got armor, and no its not based on the physique as it had what about a combined total of 300 in it. So anywise, did I use DNA with Armor, yes a single Graping Spider Hunter DNA sample.....So how the ARmor got there...random....total random...not really sure myself.
All the other samples where sub-standard.

Wish you had this experiment written out in detail so i could look at the numbers. It is often the oddities that show how things work... because they break the formula, it hints at something else being an influence.

By the way, made a Kimogilla from Capper spine flap DNA and it had worse stats then a spineflap..and it was level 40.

Kimogilas have a minimum level 40. I've got a few 100HAM Kimos from doing the same thing I have a list I should bump or include in this post with minimum CL's for a skin. There are quite a few skins that you can't get lower than X level.

Unless the materials are doing something....but then I am not sure how that workls.

I've found no reason to suspect that the materials are influencing the clones. The skins might be, but not hte meat / flora. I've been trackign what i use on each clone and haven't seen any indications that something great happened when using near 1000 weighted average meats.

If you have some DNA -> Template -> Creature numbers that really break this down that would help alot I'm gonna try to do some Pikets on Dantooine this week, but will have to see how the holiday crunch treats me. I have a strong feeling that Pikets are doing things they shouldn't be doing.

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Crunched thru some numbers today looking at Attack stats to see if I could match what Anarrion deduced and other than 2 weird examples I found the same as this post:

forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=41019

I'm going to express the formula differently though to make the necessity of rounding the Courage to the nearest 10 unnecessary... not an easy button the calculator to call a step function (least not on my junky calculator )

Attack = 2.495 - 0.001 (Courage)

or

Attack = (2495 - Courage)/1000

whichever you find easiest to use.

Prolly gonna have to write a new version of this soon and I'll ammend the title and annotate/document any other person's formula I use in it. Just trying to put together a codified set of formula from DNA to Creature for us.

how can i experiment the level of the pet down?

No one knows for certain atm. Some are saying to experiment in Psychology. Some are saying sample your clones and make 2nd / 3rd / 4th generation clones. I can't make a definitive claim one way or the other on lowering CL... it is being a bear to track down right now.

If I could get some clarifications please...

I dont understand how the maximum stat formulae works:

Physique:

• Physique 40%
  
• Prowess 25%
  
• Mental 5%
  
• Psychology 5%
  
• Aggression 25%

For example I am looking for the theoretical maximum of a given dna samples (fortitude of500)resulting Fortitude rating... I would use the formula (500)(.4)(.25)(.05)(.05)(.25)? or the formula (500)(.4) + (endurance+dexterity)(.25) + (intelligence+cleverness)(.05) etc. or is it (500 sample in physique slot)(.4)+(fortitude value of prowess slot)(.25)+(fortitude value in mental slot)(.05) etc...

Otherwise very well written post, even a simple mind such as myself could understand and grasp the concepts. Thank you Sumo

Saleb, MBE/MCH, Intrepid

I've got more reading tonight.

(Ponders another set of mind-bending calculations by Sumo)

Hmm...

Your analysis of the interior workings of this game demands patience of a caliber which is far beyond me. Thank you for thinking hard, so others like me do not have to .

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GryphonsRose wrote:

If I could get some clarifications please...

I dont understand how the maximum stat formulae works:

Physique:

• Physique 40%
  
• Prowess 25%
  
• Mental 5%
  
• Psychology 5%
  
• Aggression 25%

or is it (500 sample in physique slot)(.4)+(fortitude value of prowess slot)(.25)+(fortitude value in mental slot)(.05) etc...

Saleb, MBE/MCH, Intrepid

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It would be this above. Remember the value it returns is the maximum experimented value. Haven't found a clear cut way of predicting the starting value of a sample just what you can do by experimenting a category to full.

Some of y'all have seen my previous posts on trying to provide a formula for predicting specific events in the DNA templates, and I'm going to add some more. These are rough and not 100%. I'll try to give you ideas of when it doesn't work and the shortcomings of the system with each section. All of these have been rather useful in choosing DNA for specific slots with a specific goal in mind. I'll cover the basics of DNA placement, template experimentation results (in part), experimentation caps for a given suite of DNA, and template resists. Again, these aren't 100% accurate, but I typically get within 1 or 2 pts of the actual value. As I play around more with the system, I'll expand this to cover DNA Template to Creature predictions.

The Basics of DNA

DNA is composed of 23 individual stats. 10 characteristic stats, 1 armor stat, 8 resist stats, 2 specials, 1 ranged, and 1 quality. When the 5 DNA are combined into the template it results in the same 23 individual stats being melded together; however, there are only 5 categories upon which you can experiment. These 5 categories effect specific stats when experimented upon as such:

• Physique : Hardiness, Fortitude, Armor Rating, and Resists (to some extent)


• Prowess : Dexterity and Endurance


• Mental : Intelligence and Cleverness


• Psychology : Dependability and Courage


• Aggressiveness : Fierceness and Power

The Basics of Experimentation

When experimenting, there are at least two checks that occur on a template's statistics... one for each stat pair associated with the category. So if you experiment on Mental, then there is one experimental check for Intelligence and one for Cleverness. These two results are melded (somehow) to return a general experimentation result. On a Great Success you should see Intelligence and Cleverness both go up because you had at least a Great Success on each of the two checks. This combination of results into one message is why we see oddities in the system, such as a Failure on Mental raising Intelligence and lowering Cleverness. This seems to reflect that a Great Success occurred on Intelligence and a Critical Failure occurred on Cleverness. With that all being said, a Great Success on a category should have the following effects:

Physique

• Hardiness and Fortitude increase


• If Fortitude exceeds 500, the template might pick up Light Armor (seems to depend on having light armor DNA in specific slots, but I haven't narrowed it down to guaranteed slots)


• 0 resists typically increase (this is problematic and doesn't always occur)


• Resists with a number to them from the initial template combine typically don't increase (though I have seen some that do... again very problematic)


• If Light Armor appears AND you have had resists climbing with each experimenation point, the resists that were climbing usually revert back to zero.

Prowess

• Dexterity and Endurance increase

Mental

• Intelligence and Cleverness increase

Psychology

• Dependability and Courage increase

Aggressiveness

• Fierceness and Power increase

Experimenation and how it increases stats

I don't have this whole system mapped out, but I can make a general prediction of what happens to the numbers when you achieve a Great Success on a particular category that does NOT reach a maximum value on either pair. This formula, when coupled with the formula for stat caps coming later, should allow you to more effeciently use your experimentation points... we never seem to have enough for those do we! For this demonstration, I am going to use a specific category to avoid confusion. It works for all categories though, all you have to do is plug the pertinent category's stats into it (remember to plug the opposite stat pair into the top of the ratio!).

Physique: Hardiness (H) and Fortitude (F) using their current values before this specific experiment. Round mathematically on the final number.

Hardiness increase = [ F / ( F + H )] x 140

Fortitude increase = [ H / ( F + H )] x 140

So for Hardiness= 558 and Fortitude = 463

Hardiness increase = [ 463 / (558+463)] x 140 = 63.49 ... round to +63

Fortitude increase = [ 558 / (558+463)] x 140 = 76.51 ... round to +77

This only works for Great Successes on stat pairs that do NOT hit a maximum on either category. This does not work for Psychology predictions using 2nd (or higher) generation DNA.

Maximum stat values

Eventually as you experiment a category up the two statistics covered will reach a maximum value. Further experimentation ends when BOTH of the stats reach their perspective maximum values. This is important to consider for several reasons. The first is that you want to be able to predict the final value of very important stats like Fortitude so you don't make a DNA selection which causes you to fall a few points shy of unlocking Light Armor. The second is being able to weigh which DNA to put into which slot in order to achieve a maximum value in a specific category... the formula are varied enough that simply plugging the highest stat pairs into their perspective categories is NOT enough to insure the results you want. Not all of these are infalliable but I will try to give some guidelines for problems I've had... and will update this as my data increases allowing to me fine tune the equations.

I will put these in Schematic Percentage format for ease of viewing. To transpose them into an equation you simply multiply the stat by the percentage and then add up all of the results. Leave the rounding til the end, as more errors can be introduced by rounding before it is all added together. Remember these are NOT the stats of the template but a prediction for the MAXIMUM value you can experiment the stats up to.

Physique:

• Physique 40%


• Prowess 25%


• Mental 5%


• Psychology 5%


• Aggression 25%

Prowess (Dexterity and Endurance) - this one has some buggy problems mainly with Endurance:

• Physique 25%


• Prowess 42%


• Mental 17%


• Psychology 8.5%


• Aggression 7.5%

Mental (Intelligence and Cleverness):

• Physique 5%


• Prowess 10%


• Mental 50%


• Psychology 30%


• Aggression 5%

Psychology (Dependability and Courage) - this is the worst of the 5 and needs more refinement and 2nd (or higher) generation DNA with the 1000+'s really whack it out:

• Physique 9%


• Prowess 5%


• Mental 26%


• Psychology 43%


• Aggression 17%

Aggression (Fierceness and Power) - for best results typically round up:

• Physique 17%


• Prowess 16%


• Mental 8.5%


• Psychology 16.5%


• Aggression 42%

Resists and how to predict what will happen

This is one of the most problematic categories because of oddities with light armor and strings of 0 effectiveness. I haven't been able to 100% predict when the resists will rise with Physique experimentation, and many of us believe the resists rising are a result of a bug which is causing the kamurith super-pets.

With that being said, you can get a pretty good idea of what your template will have for resists by using the following formula for each resist category. They are all driven by the same formula.

Resists:

• Physique 40%


• Prowess 25%


• Mental 5%


• Psychology 5%


• Aggression 25%

Again, this formula whacks out when dealing with certain DNA (nocuous kamurith in particular).

Interested in feedback on these formulae! If you have data sets that are throwing major kinks into this system I'd like to hear/see them so I can tinker with it more. As my data set grows I'll be refining the numbers on these formulae. Hopefully these can give you a decent guide to using the Template to Creature ideas that others have put forth to improve your clone's stats I'll be turning my attention more to the Template to Creature formulae after Xmas.

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