Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Clone CL estimation?
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Phractal
Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:37 am
#1
Hi fellow BE's,
I am still pretty new to the BE profession, but I must say it is the most fun and challenging profession I have played yet. And no, I haven't Hologrinded it 
Actually all of my professions are out of passion...well to the point, this question came up after i created a lovely, high HAM, light armor, heavy damage, fast and intelligent furniture lvl 77 rancor 
( How to predict the CL of a clone....??
Actually all of my professions are out of passion...well to the point, this question came up after i created a lovely, high HAM, light armor, heavy damage, fast and intelligent furniture lvl 77 rancor ( How to predict the CL of a clone....??I know this can't be done 100%, that much I have learned by reading the FAQ and different guides etc. Question now is tho, is there a threshhold number where you can say "any higher and the CL will explode"...? It seems to me that CL depends on HAM and damage mostly, is that correct?
And if so, it would explain why my rancor now is a piece or furniture other than a tank lol...hehas like 13k HAM and 600-610 damage, 1.98 spd and 0.49 to hit...guess that was a bit of an over template 
Well in any case, I guess you cannot experiment on damage AND HAM to max, without exceeding the CL....or would it have been a decent tank, when I had taken a Razor Cat for example?
Well would be interested in your experiences.
Cheers
Zato
Cephalo
Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:14 am
#2
CL is *really* messed up. You can get the same visible stats and a completely different CL. It has alot to do with the CL on your origional donors. I believe that Resists and Damage over time will add CL levels to a base which is somehow derived from the CL of the donors. The best recipies come from animals that have a low CL but some good stat that you want to keep. Conversely, if you start with High CL donors and don't experiment so that the animals stats decay, you'll have a crappy pet with too high a CL. The problem is that even if you find a good recipe, you won't know if it's valid until a customer complains.
JesusFreke
Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:31 am
#3
I've also noticed that experimentation on physique in particular will *decrease* the CL, for a certain set of DNA. I was trying to make a pet with like 6k health, from a recipe that I use that normally gives 10k health. I just didn't experiment physique up as much, and the CL was higher than that of when I maxed physique.
Kevm
Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:39 am
#4
JesusFreke wrote:
I've also noticed that experimentation on physique in particular will *decrease* the CL, for a certain set of DNA. I was trying to make a pet with like 6k health, from a recipe that I use that normally gives 10k health. I just didn't experiment physique up as much, and the CL was higher than that of when I maxed physique.
I do not agree with this at all. Physique, prowess, and mind ALL have a direct affect on the HAM of the clone. The more you experiment in these areas the higher the HAM will be which will increase the CL. Experimenting in these areas will not lower the CL.
without more information on what you experimented on or the final stats of both the 6K and 10K pets, we can't tell why there was a lower CL, but its not for the reasons you mentioned.
JesusFreke
Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:44 am
#5
I know. That's EXACTLY what I thought. But alas, it had a higher CL when I didn't experiment on physique
I'll do an experiment, and post my results 
Ychew
Busukaba
Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:07 am
#6
Well, I'm no expert in pet making, as anyone who has read my posts will know. However, I have been really playing around with some old tried and true recipies and found that on some of them, anyway, you can predict when you will go over a target level. I was making a bunch of level 10 pets with the VD, VD, HP, HP, HP and VD, VD, NS, NS, NS for people in my guild. I found that eventually, after the 8th pet or so, I could look at the physique score and the aggression score (the two that you experiment on) and I could tell before the pet was made whether or not it would exceed CL.
It gets much more complex when you are experimenting on several different traits. I have noticed that Psychology seems to have relaitvely little effect, but the mental stat seems to push me over all the time. I suppose it is possible that in the final outcome the chance to hit is weighed more heavily than the speed, or it has something to do with the fact that speed changes relatively little and the to hit changes are much more dramatic. I have not played around too much with prowess since I've only made one level 60 pet, so I can't give my observations on that. Also, you do not have to use all of your experimentation points. Many times, you should not. Pet making is more of an art that any other crafting type in this game. Sometimes you need 2 points to achieve your goal, other times 8.
The other big thing is that resists play a big role as well. I believe in the FAQ it says that kinetic and Energy resist have the largest weight (it also gives you a mathematical formula to predict what your resists will be... too complex for me). This ties in to the creature's DNA you use directly and often times, to get the level down a few, you can succeed by breeding in vulnerabilities. swgcreatures.com is a big help in looking up creatures that are of certain CL in the wild that have vulnerabilities that you want to breed into your clone.
The biggest thing for me was sitting down one day and saying, OK, I'm going to make 15 pets today out of the exact same DNA and find out what different experimentations will do. I still don't have a clue on most things, but there are 4 recipies that I know pretty much exactly what I will get and how to get what I want. And now that I've written far too much about stuff I know far too little about, I'll shut up.
Waivveen
Phractal
Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:00 pm
#7
Well the thing is, experimentation really DOES seem to lower the CL....I tried the recipe VD, VD, HP, HP, HP several times today, and it always came out as a lvl 10 IF I experimented on physique and mental..if I did not experimnent, CL was 11 or even 12...now someone explain LOL
shargus
Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:07 pm
#8
Something is telling me there are some sort of ratios working in the background that affect CL. To be more specific there seems to be a relationship with the ratioclevernessto intellect.
Scotar
GFoyle
Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:17 pm
#9
The only real predictor we have ATM is a "feel" experienced BE's get for the likely CL of the creature from the DNA template.
I can now predict the likely level of a critter to within +/- 3 levels - but I'm damned if I can explain how I know what it's CL is likely to be (although the CL of the DNA donors is a big factor).
Best advice to new BE's is to "shotgun" many pets and keep an eye on what you put in and what you got out. The more you make, the better your "feel" will be.
Overall I think this effect is probably a good thing - BE is one of the few professions where there is a real difference between a "real" BE and a hologrinder (although those should be getting rarer now).
That said, I wish they'd put CL on the template so I could get a stock in and "skin up" pets to order .
JesusFreke
Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:13 pm
#10
Ok, here are the results from my experiment
the first pet, which I experimented normally, came out like this
CL10
H: 10658
A: 8917
M: 5237
60% special to kinetic, vuln to everything else
spd: 2.27
To Hit: .21
dam: 140-150
mild poison
intimidate
ranged: no
And here's a pet using the same recipe, with no experimentation at all
CL *16*
H: 6688
A: 6655
M: 4429
60% kin special resist, vuln to everything else
spd: 2.27
to hit:.25
dam: 130-140
mild poison
intimidate
ranged: no
And, here's how I created the first one
malkloc bull - malkloc bull - female kwi - gaping spider - gaping spider
initial combine = 329322403371046633633481137
maxed physique (8 points), rest into prowess(8 points)
final template stats = 5031184214531046633633481137
then, skined it and sampled it, then
merek harvester - merek harvester - malkloc bull - 1rst gen - 1rst gen
initial combine = 4502684453182278737422725166
maxed physique (3 points I believe), then 2 points into prowess (had one failure, that dropped endurance and cleverness)
final combine =6004485483322271737422725166
and from that I got creature 1 (CL10)
same recipe for the second creature, just no experimentation. Here are the stats of first and second gen templates
gen 1 = 278322623351056533033178133
gen 2 = 3782363983002188437122324157
and from that I got creature 2 (CL16)
Commentary:
There are 2 things in the build of the first creature that could have affected its CL negatively, with regards to the 2nd creature. First, I did have 1 experimentationfailure, which lowered endurance/cleverness, and 2nd, it has a slightly lower tohit than the 2nd creature.
However, the 2nd creature has less health, action, and mind, as well 10 less dam.
The only conclusion I can draw from this is that somehow experimentation actually decreased the CL, or somehow negatively affected some value/ratio that is used in the calculation of CL.
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