Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: REAL THREAD SORRY I took up a dare to from the Chefs to post this thread on pricing BE component
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SomeUser
Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:03 pm
#1
#1 - Would you sell me a case of Micro Nutrients for under 40k?
I sell micro nutrients for 20k-25k. My mediums are 40k-50k and heavies 55-60k.
#2 - Would you consider just selling me the schematic at a fair price?
No. I refuse to sell schematics at all. By doing so I am taking away business from other BE so that chefs can maximize their profits. This system was designed to be interdependant... Selling schematics is bypassing what was intended IMHO.
At the moment I have several stable chef clients that seem to be very happy with my prices. Everyone makes a good profit and everyone wins 
Vezek
Dsabre
Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:22 pm
#2
Samonrye...I'm not sure entirely what apulieus challenged you to do...but under 40k for the light additives is exceedingly common. I believe he wanted to challenge you to ask about under 40k for broad spectrum nutrients.
micronutrient supplements = light tissue
broad spectrum nutrients = medium tissue
intelligent nanonutrient = heavy tissue
as other BE's have posted they would indeed charge a "fair" price. problem is...some people think fair is 50k, others 100k, others 500k...so yes if you are thinking fair (50k), and a BE is thinking fair (100k)...you're going to agree to the trade for a "fair" price...then of course comes the part where you find out that you each have different thoughts as to what "fair" is.
everyone will always sell for what they think is fair. not everyone thinks selling for a fair price is 50k, or 100k, or whatever they feel is fair for that particular product...just as not everyone has the same concept of what is a "fair" price to buy something for. I may think 100k is a fair price to buy a 1000 use schem...but perhaps the seller thinks a fair price is 250k. If I was going to ask him for a schematic I would not ask if he would sell for a fair price...I'd either ask how much he would sell it for, or if he would sell it for price x.
if you wish to accept his challenge in earnest, I would suggest posting up numbers, and the correct tissue....as I believe he has already stated.
try posting this (note to BE's...this is not my own opinion):
"would you sell a full use schematic for 50k or a crate of broad spectrum nutrients for under 40k."
micronutrient supplements = light tissue
broad spectrum nutrients = medium tissue
intelligent nanonutrient = heavy tissue
as other BE's have posted they would indeed charge a "fair" price. problem is...some people think fair is 50k, others 100k, others 500k...so yes if you are thinking fair (50k), and a BE is thinking fair (100k)...you're going to agree to the trade for a "fair" price...then of course comes the part where you find out that you each have different thoughts as to what "fair" is.
everyone will always sell for what they think is fair. not everyone thinks selling for a fair price is 50k, or 100k, or whatever they feel is fair for that particular product...just as not everyone has the same concept of what is a "fair" price to buy something for. I may think 100k is a fair price to buy a 1000 use schem...but perhaps the seller thinks a fair price is 250k. If I was going to ask him for a schematic I would not ask if he would sell for a fair price...I'd either ask how much he would sell it for, or if he would sell it for price x.
if you wish to accept his challenge in earnest, I would suggest posting up numbers, and the correct tissue....as I believe he has already stated.
try posting this (note to BE's...this is not my own opinion):
"would you sell a full use schematic for 50k or a crate of broad spectrum nutrients for under 40k."
MissileToad
Sat Mar 27, 2004 4:30 am
#3
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:
By the way, your figures for bio-brandy I find ludicrous for my server. I've been in probably 7 or 8 chef stores and the very very lowest of those, prices his at 250k/crate. The highest value I've seen is 650k/crate, and the rest fall somewhere in between those two figures.
650k? Pardon, but DAMN. Bria must have a very inflated economy if 250k is the low, that's about midrange here on Naritus. Anyway...
I can't really comment on additive crate pricing to customers, as the only people I make additives for are my two guildmate Chefs. There's just not enough meat to go around for more than that. But schematics? I've only been approached by one Chef about this since the changes, and I offered to make the schematic for 30k. Almost no effort on my part as I had nothing to do with collecting the resources and the Chef is basically just paying for my experimentation skill. No skin off my back really.
Ordlander
Sat Mar 27, 2004 5:16 am
#4
We can talk about this all we want. Not everybody reads the boards. 
Now, no matter what as long as people are paying any price then prices will be high or higher or higher yet.
This how it goes. I sell them for what they worth say 9k for BSN. Why that the price? Add resources and not paying 100CPU for meat that I get myself. Ok, I sell it. The cheef still sells for high value which is just as inflated as 50k for the same BSN that are sold. Other case (and yes this happens alot) another comes buy, buys my non inflated stuff, puts them on there vendor and sells at inflated price. Does no work and would make 40k.
All professions sell at inflated prices because people will pay it. I for one do not pay it so I would do without. But I got deals set up as well and I barter. Its not that I don't have the money. Thats not the point. This is the point. Say meats. I right now hunting avian meat for a Doc. WHat it is selling for over 100CPU I am told. I get say 15 meats off a critter. (avian meat seems allwaos low 
) but anyway. If I sold that would be 1500 made from one critter. Tell ya what, that a heck a profit and why?
) but anyway. If I sold that would be 1500 made from one critter. Tell ya what, that a heck a profit and why?So talk prices all you want. The economy it way out of control. Stuff will sell for as much as people will pay. Till people stop paying the high prices like me, people will look for the cheeper stuff and resell at profit or the force knows what.
Nemthang
Sat Mar 27, 2004 10:19 am
#5
4-7 minutes more than 33 is important because, as any brandy addict (*cough*) will tell you, at about 41minutes duration you can be permabuffed with this stuff - as soon as the effect wears off you can immediately chug two more. That's why the duration is so important. At 33 minutes, you have to wait 8-9 minutes until you can drink more.
Nikki's pricing concepts may be inflated, but his logic is right on the money.
Shivash
Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:01 am
#6
I sell at 20/30/50 for small med and large. So in answer to your first Q, yes.
I have done a schematic on the second and it would depend on the frequency. Just the odd one doesn't bother me but too regular it would.
I have done a schematic on the second and it would depend on the frequency. Just the odd one doesn't bother me but too regular it would.
Shivash
Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:05 am
#7
Luxorblack wrote:5cpu for flora and 15cpu for meat?Jesus.I've been paying (max)2.5cpu for flora and (max) 6cpu for good quality meat.I think I'm either just very lucky or on a veryunique galaxy.
Nope, I also pay 6cpu for meat. Anyone who pay's more is daft cos, because we can take ANY type of meat it's a whole lot easier to get. 15cpu+ should be reserved for rarer types where general hunting is unlikely to get it. For example recent runs have seen meat of Torturs, Sharnaff's, GSP'S and some common tattoine creatures. All stuff people hunt day in day out for XP and thus should be priced accordingly ( i.e. cheap ).
Flora I mine myself but agree because we use any flora 2-3cpu is probably right.
Shivash
Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:07 am
#8
Thaldar wrote:
I'm a chef on the Wanderhome server and you are right, prices vary greatly! Since the patch I've noticed many new chefs hitting the scene and prices do vary, but a few of us are selling in the 150-170k range for cask crates of bio brandy. Oftentimes I feel that is too much....I couldnt imagine charging, much less paying 300k-600k for brandy. It's sickening, and because of this I totally understand the want to get a good price out of your schematics.
Daft thing is some people will pay it. Went to a vendor once on farstar ( which incidently being newer should be cheaper due to less money in circulation ) and saw some unbe'd at 70K and some be'd at 200K. Amazingly some guildies thought it was a fair price. I found it insane, fortunatly found another chef who agreed with me totally
.
Hylidex
Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:26 am
#9
I occasionally sell schematics with the resources for the same price as the finished products. The only difference is that I only have one factory, but I'll break up the schematics any way the chef wants them so he can perhaps produce faster. I once agreed to help out a trusted chef by making a schematic using his resources. Once he realized the cost of the materials and the difficulty collecting them, he decided he liked buying the finished products much better. In most cases, I like working closely with the chefs who use the products and remaining flexible.
I will make an exception and provide a schematic to a trusted close friend or guild member. But under normal circumstances, I don't sell schematics. It may be quick money, but it undermines the profession as a whole.
I think the wide variation in price between servers indicates that the game is far more than its rules. Developers take note. Nerfing products might be an overreaction to a normally dynamic set of interactions. The demand for BE products depends on the number of BE's and the number of CH's, Chefs, and Tailors, as well as the demand they see. If a scarcity of BE's drives the price up, people turn to BE in droves (which happened on Gorath recently). When frustrations increase or demand drops, people find other professions (which also happened on Gorath at the time of the Great Pet Nerf). Sometimes a hands-off policy is good for an economy, and some times intervention is desperately needed. It takes a little wisdom to tell the difference.
GreenStok
Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:20 am
#10
Take these words from someone who was wealthy long long ago
Ultimately Supply and demand will determine the price of things. Fighting that is a waist of time. If you sell too cheap, you will have no money in your pocket and if you charge too much.. you will have no money in your pocket. Their is a sweet spot to find there. Cooperate with nature and find it and you willl not only enjoy the game more, but life also, by learning Economics 101.
If you try to beat it by charging less than your competition, everyone will make less and your piers won't like you much.
You are much better off finding your nitch market and run off your repetition of quality in that market.
Some people are repulsed by wealth, sad but true, so keep low profile on this.
bigjeff5
Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:26 pm
#11
Ok, this one kinda burns me. But for pricing, you must realize that it is all server specific.
You talk about fair pricing as being 2-3x cost. Well, I tried 2x cost and chefs just plain would not buy. Why? Cause chefs, like everyone else, are greedy little money grubbers who don't want to pay a fair price for their additives (you can lump me in the money grubbers too, but just cause I hate to get jipped by other money grubbers).
Now, to be fair, I need to buy my meat, and the only way I am going to do full runs is to buy meat at about 50 cpu. Now, that one crate of micronutrients cost me right about 21500 assuming I am able to get my flora food at 3cpu (market value on the good stuff is upwards of 15, but I have some friends, not enough to take care of my meat though ).
So, going on your fair market estimates, I should be charging a minimum of 43k per crate, and upwards of 64.5k per crate. Thats what you said was fair.
Now, I put up for sale a run of mediums, 86 strength, for 3 million, which was a little over double cost. Easilly within what you called a "fair price" for your own goods. The only offer I got was for 1 million if nobody else would buy. I LOSE money if I sell for 1 million!!
Its all well and good for your "fair" pricing structure to even still squeeze everyone's pocketbooks, but then you want us to lower prices too? Sheesh, should we just hand over our bank accounts while we are at it?
The only people who can make decent money are the fighter/BE combos who can bring in their own meat at no cost but time, doc buffs, and a shuttle ticket. But frankly, I hate killing creatures. Its not what I play the game for, so I am not going to do it. I play to have fun, and that monotonous killing is so incredibly lame I'd go insane. Besides, you could make more money just selling the meat to the BE's anyway.
So, basically, I get pissed that you want us to lower prices, while you aren't willing to pay what you yourselves called a fair price. What happens when fair price is lower than market value, huh? Try being fair yourselves.
/rant off
Sorry for anybody I piss off here, I get steemed when I think about it too much. I don't even LIKE making suppliments, but I have a couple chefs to take care of.
And in case you didn't get it, I don't sell my goods at what you called a "fair price", not even your "fair" chefs will buy at that "fair" price.
/rant off for reals this time
You talk about fair pricing as being 2-3x cost. Well, I tried 2x cost and chefs just plain would not buy. Why? Cause chefs, like everyone else, are greedy little money grubbers who don't want to pay a fair price for their additives (you can lump me in the money grubbers too, but just cause I hate to get jipped by other money grubbers).
Now, to be fair, I need to buy my meat, and the only way I am going to do full runs is to buy meat at about 50 cpu. Now, that one crate of micronutrients cost me right about 21500 assuming I am able to get my flora food at 3cpu (market value on the good stuff is upwards of 15, but I have some friends, not enough to take care of my meat though
).So, going on your fair market estimates, I should be charging a minimum of 43k per crate, and upwards of 64.5k per crate. Thats what you said was fair.
Now, I put up for sale a run of mediums, 86 strength, for 3 million, which was a little over double cost. Easilly within what you called a "fair price" for your own goods. The only offer I got was for 1 million if nobody else would buy. I LOSE money if I sell for 1 million!!
Its all well and good for your "fair" pricing structure to even still squeeze everyone's pocketbooks, but then you want us to lower prices too? Sheesh, should we just hand over our bank accounts while we are at it?
The only people who can make decent money are the fighter/BE combos who can bring in their own meat at no cost but time, doc buffs, and a shuttle ticket. But frankly, I hate killing creatures. Its not what I play the game for, so I am not going to do it. I play to have fun, and that monotonous killing is so incredibly lame I'd go insane. Besides, you could make more money just selling the meat to the BE's anyway.
So, basically, I get pissed that you want us to lower prices, while you aren't willing to pay what you yourselves called a fair price. What happens when fair price is lower than market value, huh? Try being fair yourselves.
/rant off
Sorry for anybody I piss off here, I get steemed when I think about it too much. I don't even LIKE making suppliments, but I have a couple chefs to take care of.
And in case you didn't get it, I don't sell my goods at what you called a "fair price", not even your "fair" chefs will buy at that "fair" price.
/rant off for reals this time
SomeUser
Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:06 am
#12
GreenStok wrote:
Take these words from someone who was wealthy long long ago
Ultimately Supply and demand will determine the price of things. Fighting that is a waist of time. If you sell too cheap, you will have no money in your pocket and if you charge too much.. you will have no money in your pocket. Their is a sweet spot to find there. Cooperate with nature and find it and you willl not only enjoy the game more, but life also, by learning Economics 101.
If you try to beat it by charging less than your competition, everyone will make less and your piers won't like you much.
You are much better off finding your nitch market and run off your repetition of quality in that market.
Some people are repulsed by wealth, sad but true, so keep low profile on this.
GreenStok,
It is amazing how many people fail to grasp this basic concept.
While I respect each BE to set their own prices I always ask BE that have Wal-Mart prices the same question:
Do you think ArmorSmiths, WeaponSmiths, Chefs, Doctors, sell their goods at cost **or** near cost? Do you think that ArmorSmith will sell you a full suit of composite for under 200k because he is busting his balls harvesting all his own stuff???
NO is the simple answer. So why are you?
I tell people over and over and over again that other crafters are far richer then most BEs... Moreover, even many pure combat professions are richer then most BE (due to loot).
Even at 25k/50k/60k for additives chefs are still making a nice profit even if they are selling as low as 200k a crate.
Tailors take your finish product, put it in a piece of cloth, and then mark the price from 1k for a pair of slacks to 30k for a pair of slacks.... Yet some BEs want to charge the cost of that tissue it took them to make LoL If tailors did that the slacks should only be 2-3kish on vendor!!!
Maybe the problem is BE are too nice...maybe naive...maybe a bit of both. But I do think that BE who wish to sell at Wal-Mart prices consider that the person they are selling it to is likely not going to return the favor.
Bottom line:
Charge what the economy allows because you're **not** just selling your resources you are selling your skills and your time.
I'm not saying price gouge, just find that sweet spot like GreenStok said
NikkiDial
Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:57 pm
#13
Before anyone chops off my head again let me explain my post in American so you peoples can understand.
My prices arent over inflated, Eclipse is just huge with HUGE compitition.
If you think 50-100cpu is high then you should be a doc on our server and be paying 200-467cpu on meat like I often see.
I never stated my prices on my brandy so why do people assume I am charging so much?
I have a special on all my cases that nothing is over 150k and I barely make money, but I am building traffic.
Soon I will bump it back to normal prices of 200-250k for a case of brandy.
I never said there wasnt a market for mid range food. I clearly stated if you wanted to be in the good brandy range
you needed to spend a little more cash and charge a little bit more. Not because you you are greedy, but because
your volume dictates you buy larger amounts of inshift items, so you can keep constant supplies for the majority
of players that DONT want crappy brandy.
During my special I do notice that there are people buying large amounts of my stuff, which is why I am forced to
charge more for my product. That way the normal people can get my awesome brandy
Stars/Sandy
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