CUEmu - Thread Posts

ArthurDentOnBria

Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:38 am

Hi everyone,

This thread is for the discussion of the topic of:

some method for hitting target CLs more easily (CL displayed during experimentation, CL limits, experimenting status down, etc.)

which is our #4 priority issue from the 1/05 bio engineer issues list.

To get the ball rolling: I think there is a tradeoff here. On the one hand, not being able to hit CL can be frustrating. On the other hand, the fact that we are not a "insert materials, pour in all our experimentation points, hit the button" is what makes us unique and provides a continuing challenge for those willing to endure it.

Another point to consider is that from what Keldarin said at last fanfest, there are some technical reasons why displaying the CL on the crafting window during experimentation may not be possible.

What are people's thoughts on this topic?

ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
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Zadokk

Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:14 pm

#2

I think we should leave the system as it is. Experienced Bio-Engineers can predict the creature level of their pet usually by give-or-taking 5 or so levels - I know I can. Just because new bio-engineers can't doesn't mean that they should innately be granted that ability - it comes with time and careful analysis of your pets. If this was to be implemented then we would see the BE profession degrade to the point of most of the other crafting professions where, like you said, click, click, experiment and done.

I would, however, like the predicted CL to be listed on the final DNA template as I feel that it can be somewhat annoying when we can't decide whether or not it will break the minimum level of a creature skin or not.

In summary: don't make the creature level easier to hit by experimentation (or by showing a 'this is what the creature level will be if you crafted it now' type list during experimentation) - instead just have it printed on the final DNA template. I did read that this is somewhat difficult as the final level of the pet is only decided once the template has been used but I hope that the devs can find a way around this (e.g. copy some code into a new sub-routine that calculates it).

SmokingFrog

Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:41 pm

#3

I completely agree with Zadokk on this. I do not think that we should degrade this challenging profession by making CL targets a no-brainer. Making those non-CH, twins, triplets, or mega-pets is one of the things that makes this profession fun and enthralling (dare I say obsessive). It would however be nice to be able to see something like a "minimum template CL" on the template after combine. At least that way we would know that if we put it in a particular skin it could be expected to yield predictable results - the higher of the two: "minimum template CL"or "minimum skin CL".

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lammergeier

Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:51 pm

#4

personally, I'd like a better method of calculating the CL. keep it a secret, or not... but when a CL7 pet with lousy stats ends up flagged invalid, and a CL10 (we've all seen them, or seen their stats/recipes listed) that easily breaks the devs 'intended' level of balance flies by unscathed, I think something is seriously wrong.

the problem isn't just at the CL10 level... but it IS blatantly evident there, complete with dev response.

if the devs are going to recode the system, I'd like to see them start with a tighter CL code, rather than with a display of what we already have.

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Kelderek

Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:25 pm

#5

I would just be happy to have the CL listed at template completion, call it "Base Challenge Level" or "Minimum Challenge Level" or something like that since the final CL will depend on the skin choice.

I don't see any reason or need to add the CL to the view before or during experimentation -- just after you hit "done experimenting".

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LloydPickering

Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:53 pm

#6

Pretty much everything said is what I think too.

I enjoy not quite knowing what the CL will be...however I would like to know the CL before I add my template to a pet.

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Kelderek

Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:02 pm

#7

I'd like to add that I see a couple issues with CL:

1. Messed up algorithm for determining CL.
2. Lack of CL predictability

Changing number 1 will affect what needs to be done for number 2. IMO there needs to be some set in stone minimums for reaching certain stat benchmarks.

For example,
a pet with 6k to ANY HAM stat has a minimum CL of X regardless of other stats
a pet with 8k to ANY HAM stat has a minimum CL of Y regardless of other stats
a pet with 10k to ANY HAM stat has a minimum CL of Z regardless of other stats

Likewise the same thing for other stats that we deal with.
Minimums for light armor
Minimums for number of non-vuln resists or for cumulative resist totals
minimums for specials, ranged attack, to hit, damage

Right now it looks like the code behind all of this puts too strong a weight on very low stats in other areas which allows us to make one stat relatively strong and all others weak and we get a very low level pet (like the 9k health CL1 pet I just made this week with vuln to all). Use all of the stats to balance out the CL yes, but institute some minimums in there.

If these minimums are set appropriately then you ahve also (somewhat) resolved the Super 10's issue. Make it so 4k health --OR-- 30Kinetic resist --OR-- 120 damage has a minimum CL of 11 and no more super non-CH pets. If you want a 10k pet then you have to at least dabble in CH. 4k health is plenty for a mount or as a tank to use in a pinch (don't forget you can still buff pets, and pet stims heal all 3 HAM stats, and you can use your weapon while on a mount... ALL big advantages to haveing a nice CL10 pet if you're not a CH).

All of that is to say, if there were minimums put in place, they don't need to tell us what they are, the BE community will figure them out over time (it would be fun!) just like for creature skin minimum CLs, and the result would be that you would have a much better knowledge of what level your pet will be during experimentation. (...oh look I just hit 500 fortitude and have armor, I know my pet will now be at least level Y...). If it's like this then I don't think we need to see any CL during experimentation, just add it to the final result after experimentation is done.