Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Rough draft of a new Cloning how to guide.
I'd like to start with a very large thank you to Sumorex, Tal-N, Armok, KillerCRS, Grelgen, Plageron and Talthazar for coming up with details and confirmation for what I've tried to co-alate. Any mistakes found here in are certainly mine. I'm also going to preface this some of the links I find almost indespensible.
http://www.swgcreatures.com
http://bioengineer.talthazar.com/
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=43144&page=1
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=40985&page=1
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=45892&page=1
Making a BE Pet
BE pets are a balancing act with 5 DNA samples and upto 10 experimentation points. You begin with 5 DNA samples which must be placed across 5 characteristics, physique, prowess, mental, psychology and aggression, to create a template. Once the template has been made you may spend your experimentation points as you wish on these 5 characteristics up to there maximums. You then get the final template. Pick a "skin" and add into it the final template plus meat and flora food to create a creature. It sounds fairly easy but none of the DNA samples contribute to just one thing and so it generally ends up a balancing action to get the creature you want. These 5 DNA samples will control HAM (Health/Action/Mind), armor, resists, damage, attack speed, chance to hit, ranged attack, 2 different special attacks and the creature level. The skin you pick will determine the creatures run speed, minimum creature level and whether its "aggro" (i.e. could it ever be a non-ch pet and does it deathblow)
HAM
Each of the HAM attributes (Health/Action/Mind) is effected by the inputted DNA samples. However the only way to effect Health positively in experimentation is to experiment on physique. The only way to effect Action positively is to experiment on prowess. The only way to effect Mind positively is to experiment on mental. The following how the DNA slots effect the initial/final outcome.
Health is determined by hardiness. Hardiness is determined by the physique algoritm, physique 40%, prowess 25%, mental 5%, psychology 5% and aggression 25%. 500 will give you about 9000 health. (Final combine randomizes this a bit)
Action is determined by dexterity. Dexterity is determined by the prowess algorithm, physique 25%, prowess 42%, mental 17%, psychology 8.5% and aggression 7.5%. 500 will give you about 9000 action. (Final combine randomizes this a bit)
Mind is determined by intellect. Intellect is determined by the mental algorithm, physique 5%, prowess 10%, mental 50%, psychology 50% and aggression 5%. 500 will give you about 9000 mind. (Final combine randomizes this a bit)
As you can see each of these stats is effect to varying degrees by all 5 DNA samples entered into the samples. Of the three stats Health is usually considered the most important for a pet, action the second most.
Armor and Resists
Armor is determined by fortitude. If the fortitude is over 500 you get armor, under and you don't. Fortitude is determined as follows physique 40%, prowess 25%, mental 5%, psychology 5% and aggression 25%. To experiment fortitude up you put experiment points in physique. Please note that is is common for fortitude to max out before hardiness. Once it stops moving upward on a successful experiment of physique then its maxed out.
Resists are a little more complicated. Resist are a little more complicated. To start with there are 8 resists, kinetic, energy, blast, heat, cold, electric, acid and stun. Each of these resists can come in 3 flavors effective, special and vulnerable. Effective and special resist damage in exactly the same way, however they work differently with respect to BE cloning. Vulnerable acts as a -99 special resist. Resistance is determined by the standard physique determination algorithem, physique 40%, prowess 25%, mental 5%, psychology 5% and aggression 25%. However specials resists always overide effective resist making the effective resist act as a 0 for the calculation. If the final resist is negattive then the resist will be marked as vulnerable. Please note that effective resist will come through with part of its value. It will then require physique experimentation to bring it up to its full value. It cannot be brought over its final value by experimentation. However effective resists may be brought over the determined figure by a great result on the final combine. Special resists will always be at there determined amount and are unneffected by experimentation. Please note that kinetic and energy have a BE ceiling of 60 and the rest seem to have a ceiling of 80.
Examples of the resist calculation
physique/prowess/mental/psychological/aggression = resist
15E + 15E + 15E + 15E + 15E = 15*0.4 + 15*0.25 + 15*0.05 + 15*0.05 + 15*0.25 = 15E
15S + 15S + 15S + 15S + 15S = 15*0.4 + 15*0.25 + 15*0.05 + 15*0.05 + 15*0.25 = 15S
15S + 15S + 15E + 15E + 15E = 15*0.4 + 15*0.25 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 9.75 = 9S
15E + 15E + VLN + 15E + 15E = 0 + 0 + -99*0.05 + 0 + 0 = -4.95 = Vulnerable
15S + 15S + VLN + 15S + 15S = 15*0.4 + 15*0.25 + -99*0.05 + 15*0.05 + 15*0.25 = 9S
The system will not currently track effective vs special resist for you so you will need to track it yourself.
Damage, Attack Speed and ToHit
Damage is determined by power. Power uses the aggression algorithm, physique 17%, prowess 16%, mental 8.5%, psychology 16.5% and aggression 42%. 500 will give you about 400 damage. (Final combine randomizes this a bit)
Attack speed is determined by courage. Courage uses the psychology algorithm, physique 9%, prowess 5%, mental 26%, psychology 43% and aggression 17%. 500 will give you about 2.0 attack speed. (Final combine randomizes this a bit)
To Hit is determined by cleverness. Cleverness uses the mental algorithm, physique 5%, prowess 10%, mental 50%, psychology 50% and aggression 5%. 500 will give you about a 0.5 toHit. (Final combine randomizes this a bit)
Ranged Attack, Special1 and Special2
Ranged attack is determined by the mental DNA inserted. The DNA sample needs to have the ranged ability. There is then some form of transferance done based on the quality of the DNA sample. I have reliably gotten ranged attack to come through when my only ranged DNA sample was in the mental slot and was very high quality.
The general belief is that by preference special 1 comes from agression and special 2 from psychology. Please note that they do not have to come from the same DNA slots. Multiple copies of an attack seem to cause a preference for that attack. Slots lacking specials seem to shift the specials off to other slots but do not make it definite that an attack will come through. Invalid specials (Area-Of-Effect, plague strike, poison spray, open wounds) seem to express themselves as empty specials. By this I mean that invalid specials if picked will come through as missing specials and so are likely to mean you get no special for 1 or 2, as appropriate.
Creature Level
The short version is we don't really understand the algorithem that is used. The hope would be that CL would take all of the above into effect. Practically however it seems to mostly depend on damage, resists and the CL of the donors. In addition the CL determining algorithm is supposed to change soon. This makes most of our current guesses fairly pointless. Please note however there are a few important levels from a sales perspective. CL10 is the non-CH level. CL12 is the novice CH level. CL23/34 is the "triplets" level for an MCH. (23 + 23 + 24 = 70). CL35 is the "twins" level for an MCH. (25 + 35 = 70). CL 60-70 is the single large, hay look what I've got level.
Template Level
Templates have the same quality characteristics that DNA samples have. (Poor, below average, average, above average, high and very high) We assign numbers to them Poor = 0, below average = 1, average = 2, above average = 3, high = 4, and above average = 5. A DNA template will have a quality which is the average of its 5 samples rounded down. This means that it takes 5 very high quality samples to make a very high quality template. It also mean a 1 above average, 3 high and 1 very high quality samples will make a high quality template. There seems to be some advantage to using higher quality templates when doing the final combine. It also seems to effect the type of DNA gotten for nth generation DNA samples.
Skins
Skins determine movement speed, aggression level and minimum CL for a creature. They are applied as the last part of the combine. Aggression level and minimum CL determines who can tame/use the pet. Non-CH must by 10 or under and not aggressive. Low level CH's also tend to be unable to handle agressive pets.
Aggressive pets inlcude Angler, Boar wolf, Bocatt, Choku, Huurton, Kusak, Langlatch, Shear Mite, Bordock, Dune Lizard, Narglatch, Woolamander, Kliknik, Vesp, Graul, Rancor and Kimogila.
CL 2 minimum Pets include Angler, Bearded Jax, Boar Wolf, Bocatt, Choku, Durni, Eopie, Gnort, Hermit Spider, Huurton, Kima, Krahbu, Kusak, Langlatch, Mott, Roba, Shear Mite, Slice Hound, Squall, Swirl Prong, and Vir Vur.
CL 5 minimum Pets include Bageraset, Bantha, Blurgg, Bol, Bolle Bol, Bolma, Bordok, Brackaset, Carrion Spat, Cu Pa, Dalyrake, Dewback, Dune Lizard, Falumpaset, Gualama, Guf Drolg, Gurnaset, Gurrcat, Gurreck, Ikopi, Kaadu, Kahmurra, Kwi, Mawgax, Narglatch, Pugoriss, Verne, and Zucca Boar.
CL 10 minimum Pets include Huf Dun, Razor Cat, Veermok, and Woolamander.
CL 15 minimum Pets include Gronda, Kliknik, Ronto, Snorbal, Thune, Tyblis and Vesp.
CL 20 minimum Pets include Malkloc and Torton.
CL 25 minimum Pets include Graul, Merek, Piket and Sharnaff.
CL 30 minimum Pet is the Fambaa.
CL 35 minimum Pet is the Rancor.
CL 40 minimum Pet is the Kimogila.
Currently the colors do not seem to stick on tamed pets. In addition the examine function from the scout line seems to produce odd results. So right now the color function is primarily for statues.
Generation Creation
For assorted reasons you may wish to make a generational creation. It is currently possible to sample DNA from creature you have created. There used to be a bug where the cleverness of a sample from a creature you had created would be 0. This seems to no longer be true.
Any time you sample the DNA sample will have lower stats than the creature it came from. Even with 10 experiments points it seems to be impossible to max every stat to try and regain the original creatures stats. This allows you to reduce the stats (HAM/Attack Speed/Dammage/To Hit) while maintaining the resists and special of the creature. Armor becomes an interesing problem in this procedure because of the need to maintain a fortitude over 500 while reducing the rest of the stats. The end goal of this process is to maintain the characteristics you care about, while losing the ones you don't and achieving a lower CL level. It can also be used to combine vulnerabilities for resists you don't care about. Vulnerability to everything except kinetic is common for PvE pets. You can even use it in conjunction with first generation DNA for certain feature you care about. If you want to introduce certain specials but don't have a donor with those specials and the armor/resists you want? Make one. This is especially important in the agression slot which strongly effect both armor and specials. Make a first run creature to be your agression donor and then feed it back into the mix (mutant, mutant, deaths head, deaths head, deaths head) gives strong poison, strong disease and ranged attack. However the armor has been severly weakened. (29, 39, 65, 65, 65, 19, 19, 19, 19). Feed that back in (mutant, mutant, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd), you get to keep the strong poison, strong disease and ranged attack but the armor is now (39, 52, 70, 70, 70, 22, 22, 22, 22). Its a lot of additional work but it may be worth it to you. You should also note that I have never gotten a better quality sample out of a creature than the template it came from. So it took very high quality template creatures to get very high quality DNA samples.
Very nice guide! It takes a lot of the otherwise available information and combines it nicely.
Since this is a rough draft, I'll get out my red editor's pencil and offer commentary ![]()
1. The mental algorithm, given in two places, is incorrect. It states that psych is 50%, while I believe it is 30%
2. Armor and resists: I did not find mention of the tendency of normal effectiveness to "flop" back to zero when light armor is achieved (fortitude > 500), and that putting additional experimentation into physique will raise it back to it's true level. In addition, normal 'effectiveness' type resists on armored source templates will often end up higher on un-experimented clones which start without armor. Full experimentation will generally correct this (after the flop), but not always; especiallyif the last physique experiment point flips the armor. In addition, the algorighm for combining normal 'effectiveness' resists with armored and unarmored clones isn't a straight weighted average as it is with special protection. Unfortunately, I don't have enough information to say exactly what it is... more research is required.
3. Creature Level: Typo for 'triplets' levels. It's listed as 23/34, when it should be 23/24. 'Twins' has a typo in the second formula (should be 35 + 35 = 70). You should also probably mention that very high level aggressive pets (>60) can only be controlled by Wookie MCH or by another race with taming bonuses on their clothing.
4. Template Level: above average appears twice in the list. Substitute Very High Quality for the second instance.
5. Skins: I have not had trouble getting colors to stick after taming. However, the color of the pet in the datapad will be the default color (not the specified color). The proper color will only be seen on the called pet.
Thats it for now!
Armok wrote:
Since this is a rough draft, I'll get out my red editor's pencil and offer commentary
![]()
Much appreciated Armok, thank you. I have factored your red ink back into my local copy of this document
. I'll let other people comment for a little while. Then I'll factor there ink and if it looks useful I'll repush it for everyone to see. I did have a question or two for you though.
1) On color sticking, I know I've had 2 complaints from customers who had commisioned colored pets that the color did not stick. Is it possible this is a per skin issue? Alternatly do you think this was a recent fix?
2) On the effective armor value, I've always had the armor start very low but been able to experiment it up to the value predicted by the calculation. Once I understood the special over-ride characteristic that is. Did you have a good example of the calculation breaking down? I haven't done many experiments since the uber-pet fix. Has the system surrounding it changed?
BTW AWSOME job on this...it looks wonderful!
Yes I have also had a problem with the Rancor skin. Made a nice pinkish one for my wife and once tamed it came out the default "brownish" color.
Excellent job Mirrl, very nicely done.
-Grishnaar
Would anyone be interested in this? Its all done, I just dont have a website to host it from.
Echo the sentiments of everyone who said - tremendous job!
Regarding, stickying this thread, I agree it needs to be added. However, compared to the other profession forums, the BE forum has way to many stickied threads already. I sent Tal a note about this yesterday but seeing as I just made master and am new to the forum I would have ignored it if I were him ![]()
Bottom line, this forum needs to have a lot fewer sticky threads and this needs to be one of them. I'll throw this out as a suggestion:
1. Top 5 issues / developer responses
2. Cloning How To
3. Hologrind
4. FAQ
Cheers-
Thanks alot Girl, saves me from annoying you my my /tells.
Karsus
Rancor color doesnt stick currently
Razor Cat, Angler, and Kwi, I have all seen keep their color modifications when called.