CUEmu - Thread Posts

Akelan

Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:06 am

This is just a tentative idea, but one that might spark a workable solution through discussion and refinement.

Contract Vendor:

Step one - Buy a "Vending machine" made by a Droid Engineer , Architect, or an Artisan, depending on the developer's untimate decision. These would be a simple, unique item, that would look enough like a bazaar terminal to be recognizable, and not to detract from the "NPC Vendor" capabilities granted with higher skill points.

Step two - A Merchant would essentially place and activate the vendor, similar to a harvester, or taming a pet or droid.

Step three - The Merchant and the player wishing to operate the vendor would establish a "contract" that would bind the vending machine to both accounts. The contract would include a rate to be paid to the merchant for the use of the vendor, similar to the way city structures like shuttleports can be assigned a portion of the price to be paid to the city treasury.

Step Four - The player contracting the use of the vendor would then be able to operate the vendor; stocking, setting prices, paying maintenance, etc. The vendor would act as a normal vendor in all respects with one exception. Each sale made from the "vending machine" would pass a standard, fixed "per-Sale Fee" to the merchant, and merchant experience in a reduced amount (similar to factory crafting experience) would also accrue to the merchant. I imagine a "price cap" might be imposed on these vending machines as well, further separating them from the NPC Vendor that requires higher skills. A limit of 50k or so might make a good starting point, though I am sure some other amount would eventually be decided upon, possibly based on the fee to be paid to the merchant (higher fee - higher price range)

Step Five - at the end of the "contract", which would either be at the date agreed or at the end of one of the two account's active time in-game, the vendor would become closed to sales for a fixed period (say 10 days, just for the sake of a starting number), during which the player could remove any existing stock, or re-contract the vendor with the same merchant. The merchant could "up-deed" the vending machine, which would be usable again like a harvester deed, or possibly the vending machine would be deleted at the end of the "removal period".

This would allow a merchant to significantly widen their range of vending opportunities, and allow players to use a vendor themselves, without becoming merchants. The merchant would recieve payment for their "licensing" of the vendor, and the crafting class selected to make the vending machine would be given another salable item to create. It would not permanently grant an ability to a crafter without skill points, and it would provide the utility of a personally managed vendor without automaticly granting it to a master of any profession, and by enhancing the merchant profession, rather than marginalizing it.

This is all just a toss-out idea to look at, but it might serve as the basis for some good suggestions as we discuss and refine it.

LLan

ArthurDentOnBria

Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:27 am

#2

This idea is essentially what a lot of people have been asking for, for some time and that is: simply add "admin" rights to vendors. From a merchant's perspective this is a necessity because the process of using the clumsy "offer" mechanism is a really poor way to do business and it just flat out doesn't work when you're talking about doing things in fairly large volume. And from a suppliers perspective you want to see your goods move faster, so the ability to keep up your own stock is important.

It was a bit troubling during fanfest to learn that they were against such a concept, because they felt it somehow cheapened the merchant skillset.

ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%

Akelan

Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:35 am

#3

I was hoping the deed/device, the fact that the player has admin but not the merchant, and the fee/price cap might differentiate this enough to make it workable. I'm not sure if merchants are limited to the number of vendors they can run, where this, if there is a limit on "merchant-direct" vendors would extend that, and it would also eliminate the issue of who gets the credits when a sale is made, as well as the notification.

Admin rights to a merchant's vendor seems a somewhat touchier idea; is there enough in this one to resolve some of those potential pitfalls while still giving the players that need or want to sell their wares the essentials they are seeking?

LLan

Talthazar

Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:36 am

#4

It's an interesting idea and I like it, but I think you'd havehard time getting it implemented. Even though it does bring the merchant into the picture it still let's people use a skill for which they haven't paid the point cost. Further, I'm not sure merchants would like being glorified veding machine maintenance men any more than we liked the idea of being vets when pet stims came out. In retrosepct of course, pet stims turned out to be quite profitable.

I would think that, for it to work, each contract vendor so placed would have to come out of the merchants vendor count, otherwise everyone would have a vendor and most would be empty. Really this is part of the problem with vendors right now. Too many people set them up, drop the skill and never bother to maintain the vendors.

Brutir Llecc'Honep
Master Bio-engineer - Proprietor - Honep Industries - Kauri
Brutir - Master Bio-Engineer - Test Center
SWG Bio-engineer

Talthazar

Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:44 am

#5

This idea is essentially what a lot of people have been asking for, for some time and that is: simply add "admin" rights to vendors.

Well you used to be able to do this, but it was removed for the same reason the devs don't want to put it back in. Personal I would have rathered not having a skill requirement for vendors and letting anyone place one, but I can understand why this isn't so.

Brutir Llecc'Honep
Master Bio-engineer - Proprietor - Honep Industries - Kauri
Brutir - Master Bio-Engineer - Test Center
SWG Bio-engineer

Akelan

Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:27 pm

#6

I was hoping the idea of the contract, and making the vending machine separate from the merchant's existing potential vendor pool would help further the merchant's abilities, though I do understand their possible reaction to it as trivializing the merchant's own vendors.

What about the possibility of vending machines that are empty also perhaps "re-deeding" themselves on the spot after a period of time with no transactions as well? Would that solve the "too many unused vendors" issue?

I would also suggest that the vending machine not have a "stockroom" that could be used as "stealth storage", but that items being placed for sale on the vendor go direct from inventory to the "sales floor", and a hopper similar to the output one in afactory would collect the unsold items if they de-listed after a period of time, so they could be retrieved but nothing could be added to the vendor to store in the bin.

Make the vending machine a useful subset of the NPC vendor's capabilities, that would allow for sales but have limits that the merchant's own NPC vendors would not, and you might get the support for it, though that would take some careful balancing. Solving the "I need a vendor" without removing the benefits to being a merchant will take some compromises, I am sure.

What about the issue of advertising/registering a vendor? Should this be Merchant only, so that the map does not immediately sprout a list of every vending machine on the planet? Should advertising be a service that can be purchased from a merchant for an additional fee?

Should the Vending machines be shot on sight if they are ever given the ability to spout repetitive, proximity triggered drivel like some merchant vendors?

Should BE's be given a template to make a Pet Vendor, that looks like a Sharupat with a whip and a hat that lights up and says "Lion Tamer"?

These and more fascinating questions remain to BE answered.

LLan

SomeUser

Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:33 pm

#7

I think another solution that has been proposed on the merchant forums has been:

1. The merchant would set his % of the sale that he would receive.

2. The player would offer his item to the vendor at his price and agree to the % the merchant would receive.

3. When a purchase takes place the money is automatically spit and sent via bank to each accounts.

This is a very basic overview of one idea that I liked. It basically allows a lot of potential for merchants to make money while it also provides the customer with a easy and **safe** way to sell his wares.

The one problem I see is merchents who destroy vendors and/or fail to pay maintence... Some system should be in place so that a player has a chance to retrieve his/her items in that situation.

Message Edited by SomeUser on 06-10-2004 03:34 PM

Vezek

Talthazar

Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:47 pm

#8

Akelan wrote:

I was hoping the idea of the contract, and making the vending machine separate from the merchant's existing potential vendor pool would help further the merchant's abilities, though I do understand their possible reaction to it as trivializing the merchant's own vendors.

I do think there would have to be some limit on the number on the number of these a merchant could control whether it's part of the main vendor pool or seperate.

What about the possibility of vending machines that are empty also perhaps "re-deeding" themselves on the spot after a period of time with no transactions as well? Would that solve the "too many unused vendors" issue?

Actually, I think that's probably a good idea for any vendor.

I would also suggest that the vending machine not have a "stockroom" that could be used as "stealth storage", but that items being placed for sale on the vendor go direct from inventory to the "sales floor", and a hopper similar to the output one in afactory would collect the unsold items if they de-listed after a period of time, so they could be retrieved but nothing could be added to the vendor to store in the bin.

This actually isn't much of an issue and you'd have to be careful of this being used to bypass normal house storage limits. Much to my chagrin, I discovered that any items left in the stockroom get deleted after 7 days (Ilost more than a couple million dollars worth of merchandise this way ) This in itself really cuts back on using vendors for storage.

Should BE's be given a template to make a Pet Vendor, that looks like a Sharupat with a whip and a hat that lights up and says "Lion Tamer"?

<shudders>

That's just wrong

Brutir Llecc'Honep
Master Bio-engineer - Proprietor - Honep Industries - Kauri
Brutir - Master Bio-Engineer - Test Center
SWG Bio-engineer

Akelan

Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:51 pm

#9

Rats! There goes my plan for all those gnorts labelled "Ant Lion".

LLan

ArthurDentOnBria

Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:57 pm

#10

See, to me the biggest problem is not the problem of making sure the merchant gets his cut, or how the sale is done, it is all about how one maintains stock.

There is the 25 item limit on "offers". There is the problem with the timeliness to which the merchant can list the items for sale (this problem is worsened by the fact that the merchant is never notified when things are offered, or when the merchant's vendors are not in close proximity to one another - i.e. on other planets). And of course when the merchant goes on vacation or takes some time off from the game, you as a supplier are completely hosed. May as well stop crafting. The other problem is that it is extremely desirable for you as a crafter to be able to pick up things from the vendor that others are offering to you (meat, etc for BE's). There is also a problem with returns or exchanges (not particularly important to a BE, much more so for a tailor).

The money thing is always something that can be worked out. These other things, I dunno.

SomeUser wrote:
2. The player would offer his item to the vendor at his price and agree to the % the merchant would receive.

ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%

Talthazar

Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:06 pm

#11

Would these really count as offers though? I gather that the idea for this system is that the offers would go directly to a sale rather than sit on the "offers" menu waiting for the merchant to deal with it. Once it's on the "for sale" menu rather than the "offer" menu, I would think it would no longer count toward the number of offers for the crafter.

ArthurDentOnBria wrote:

See, to me the biggest problem is not the problem of making sure the merchant gets his cut, or how the sale is done, it is all about how one maintains stock.

There is the 25 item limit on "offers". There is the problem with the timeliness to which the merchant can list the items for sale (this problem is worsened by the fact that the merchant is never notified when things are offered, or when the merchant's vendors are not in close proximity to one another - i.e. on other planets). And of course when the merchant goes on vacation or takes some time off from the game, you as a supplier are completely hosed. May as well stop crafting. The other problem is that it is extremely desirable for you as a crafter to be able to pick up things from the vendor that others are offering to you (meat, etc for BE's). There is also a problem with returns or exchanges (not particularly important to a BE, much more so for a tailor).

The money thing is always something that can be worked out. These other things, I dunno.

SomeUser wrote:
2. The player would offer his item to the vendor at his price and agree to the % the merchant would receive.

Brutir Llecc'Honep
Master Bio-engineer - Proprietor - Honep Industries - Kauri
Brutir - Master Bio-Engineer - Test Center
SWG Bio-engineer

SomeUser

Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:12 pm

#12

ArthurDentOnBria wrote:

See, to me the biggest problem is not the problem of making sure the merchant gets his cut, or how the sale is done, it is all about how one maintains stock.

There is the 25 item limit on "offers". There is the problem with the timeliness to which the merchant can list the items for sale (this problem is worsened by the fact that the merchant is never notified when things are offered, or when the merchant's vendors are not in close proximity to one another - i.e. on other planets). And of course when the merchant goes on vacation or takes some time off from the game, you as a supplier are completely hosed. May as well stop crafting. The other problem is that it is extremely desirable for you as a crafter to be able to pick up things from the vendor that others are offering to you (meat, etc for BE's). There is also a problem with returns or exchanges (not particularly important to a BE, much more so for a tailor).

The money thing is always something that can be worked out. These other things, I dunno.

Good points Arthur. Since I have merchant on my alt I tend to over look such "details"

Another idea is to just reduce the skill pts required for merchant and to somehow allow non-artisan crafters a way to go up the merchant tree without having tospend 15sp in Artisan...

Vezek

SomeUser

Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:18 pm

#13

Talthazar wrote:
Would these really count as offers though? I gather that the idea for this system is that the offers would go directly to a sale rather than sit on the "offers" menu waiting for the merchant to deal with it. Once it's on the "for sale" menu rather than the "offer" menu, I would think it would no longer count toward the number of offers for the crafter.

I assume there would have to be some final approval on the vendors... Could you imagine the grief potential there? All one would have to do is get a few crates of weapon power-up and offer them to the vendor one by one at some low ball price filling up a merchant's vendor with junk...

That problem would be made much worse if they add item caps...

Vezek

Bio Engineer Archive

Thread: Contract Vendors a possible answer to the I need a vendor & can't spare the skill points issue