Bio Engineer Archive

Thread: Dimishing results

Joker9125
Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:41 pm
#1

Im thinking of picking up MBE and MR to go with my CH skills so I can craft my own pets so I have a total noob qestion for you.


At what combat lvl do you see the most dimishining results stat wise?


it seems to me to bee either 22 or 35 cause ive seen alot of lvl 35 BE creatures with ar1 60% kinetic and 8k or so ham. and Ive seen some lvl 60's creatures that have ar1 60% kinetic and 13k ham with other resists but those dont really matter much in pve. Thats just my observation but I would like to get the opinion of a profession vet.



http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=creature_handler&message.id=218063">Clicky To My Sticky

"If nothing else, I've got time to explore some of the other games my friends are playing. It could easily be argued that the NGE is the best thing ever to happen to guild wars" - Me

Velitham MCH
ArthurDentOnBria
Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:10 pm
#2

That is true. In terms of just pure kinetic tanking, a CL 20 critter or so will tank almost as well as a CL 60 one or whatever, but the difference is it will get beat up badly if you attack anything other than critters (like NPC's), and it won't be able to kill much on its own, it needs someone else to supply the damage. If you had master BE and master ranger you'd have no points left over for combat skills (other than 3 boxes of CH), so to be able to do anything other than kill low level mods, you'd probably need to be grouped with some folks with impressive combat skills. For solo-ing, you'd not be at all effective.





Joker9125 wrote:

Im thinking of picking up MBE and MR to go with my CH skills so I can craft my own pets so I have a total noob qestion for you.


At what combat lvl do you see the most dimishining results stat wise?


it seems to me to bee either 22 or 35 cause ive seen alot of lvl 35 BE creatures with ar1 60% kinetic and 8k or so ham. and Ive seen some lvl 60's creatures that have ar1 60% kinetic and 13k ham with other resists but those dont really matter much in pve. Thats just my observation but I would like to get the opinion of a profession vet.









ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%


droid327
Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:38 pm
#3


think MR might mean Master Rifleman in this case =) But if it doesnt, just take ranger 0030 as thats all you need to track animals, frees up more points for combat skills



Jekk Badlander
Lowca
Commando - Rebel Pilot
------------------------------------------------
Factor
Joker9125
Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:16 pm
#4

I was thinking master ranger since im pretty sure it gets mask scent bonuses not exactly sure because i havent been able to play much cause of my schools firewall restrictions (thats getting fixed soon though)


Ok so why exactly is a CL 20 pet almost as good at a CL 60 againts critters? It would make more sense that it would be about 3 X better but hey this is SWG it dosent have to make sense.


Ok so if i have this right the most gain in stats for levels are gained in the 1-20 range and after that it kinda starts going downhill.


One more question. Whats the highest damage anyone here has ever goten out of a pet?



http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=creature_handler&message.id=218063">Clicky To My Sticky

"If nothing else, I've got time to explore some of the other games my friends are playing. It could easily be argued that the NGE is the best thing ever to happen to guild wars" - Me

Velitham MCH
Joilhath
Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:36 pm
#5






Joker9125 wrote:

I was thinking master ranger since im pretty sure it gets mask scent bonuses not exactly sure because i havent been able to play much cause of my schools firewall restrictions (thats getting fixed soon though)


Ok so why exactly is a CL 20 pet almost as good at a CL 60 againts critters? It would make more sense that it would be about 3 X better but hey this is SWG it dosent have to make sense.


Ok so if i have this right the most gain in stats for levels are gained in the 1-20 range and after that it kinda starts going downhill.


One more question. Whats the highest damage anyone here has ever goten out of a pet?







You get no more bonuses to mask scent after master scout.


A Cl20ish pet is almost is good at tanking against critters their DPS is terrible though so you need a combat skill other than CH if you plan on using them solo.





Joilhath Master Creature Handler/Master Bio Engineer
Joilhoth Master Artisan/Master Tailor/Master Chef
Oskiss Master Tera Kasi Artist/Master Doctor
Owner and Operator of Pets Needs (-6141, -915) Corellia in Pax Gallatica Mall
GFoyle
Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:24 am
#6

I'm MCH, MBE and Ranger 0-0-3-0, I'm afraid you can't get Master Ranger and keep the CH skills (that set-up uses allmy SP's).


The Ranger gives me the ability to track all mobs with direction and distance - which is well worth it for finding speciifc creatures for sampling and babies. The Rangeris also believed to give a small add to maskscent (it is theorised on the ranger forum that a proportion of camo adds slightly to maskscent) - certainly the Master Scout prerequisite helps enourmously if you intend to sample mutant rancors and the like.


Lack of combat skills is not a killer if you plan ahead.


The major problem is that just using pets it takes a long time to take down a creature lair.


I have successfully soloed 15K Rancor missions on Dath(they take a bout an hour though!). It does take a lot of work and a certain amount of luck. Lobbing massed traps, healing the pets, crackerjack mob control and judicious application of the BE "needle of death" are the key to taking these down. It's not really a viable proposition though (I did it mainly to prove I could!)


Missioning for cash, go for 10K NPC missions on places like Talus (pirates) - a couple of mid level attack pets will shred these and you can easily do 4 in an hour.


Obviously this template in no way compares to the FOTM combat classes for hunting and missioning.


It is however an excellent sampling/creature building template.


I've found that the most cost effective combo for me is CL's 45/25 Toxic Merek Battlelord/Crystal Snake - both tamed from the wild. I ought to make BE'd equivalents, but honestly haven't needed to (I suspect the TMB is slightly overpowered in comaprison to it's CL - certainly my hunter alt would far rather fight a Rancor).


The 45 pet is the main attack pet, 25 on guard duty with a seperate set of attack commands so I can order it in as backup if necessary.I need a guard pet without personal combat ability.


What combo works for you will depend a lot on your fighting style and the opponent - for massed mid-level mobs a trio of CL 23 pets or CL35 twins is optimum. High level singles demand the CL 70 uber-tank. All other situations and for general purpose work the 45/25 combo works for me.


As for highest pet damage - Dennis, my Rancor, has 620-650 DAM, but he is pre-nerf and slightly gimped in the resists department. Most CL70 pets seem to run to 550 DAm or so under the current system.


Hope this helps.




Gully Foyle
All SOE game accounts cancelled - and this time I'm gone for good
ArthurDentOnBria
Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:00 am
#7

Ok, here's the deal. Rangers do not get any bonus to mask scent (it maxes out at master scout) but they do get a brand new ability called /conceal. /conceal quite frankly is a pain in the rear to use, as it requires you gather up a bunch of different planet-specific organic resources and make cammo kits, then apply the cammo kits. The other thing about /conceal is that mask scent actually works as well or better than conceal until you get like box 4 on that subtree or the master level box. In practical terms, for a BE, /conceal is only better to you then mask scent if you are a master ranger because that's when you get the dath cammo kit. So /conceal is an "all-or-nothing" proposition if you want it.


The only other thing, imho, that is useful in the ranger tree to a BE is tracking which will help you locate the creatures you want to dna sample from. That skill is buggy, and the range over which you can track is pretty small, but yea, it's definitely useful to a BE. You can get pretty good tracking at 0-0-3-0 or 0-0-4-0 will give you better range on your tracking.


Like I said before, if you have uber combat skills, a CL 20 pet is just fine for tanking. It can have probably 75% of the HAM and the same armor and kinetic resists as a CL 70 critter. But the key is that for someone like you, a tank does you no good because you'll not be able to kill anything substantial. The CL 20 tanks just do not do enough damage to make them a viable hunting weapon on their own. You can make CL 20's that do more damage, but then you sacrifice their defensive abilities, and you'll still have the same problem, they are too weak to kill anything substantial.



ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%


GFoyle
Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:02 am
#8





ArthurDentOnBria wrote:
Rangers do not get any bonus to mask scent (it maxes out at master scout) but they do get a brand new ability called /conceal. /conceal quite frankly is a pain in the rear to use, as it requires you gather up a bunch of different planet-specific organic resources and make cammo kits, then apply the cammo kits. The other thing about /conceal is that mask scent actually works as well or better than conceal until you get like box 4 on that subtree or the master level box. In practical terms, for a BE, /conceal is only better to you then mask scent if you are a master ranger because that's when you get the dath cammo kit. So /conceal is an "all-or-nothing" proposition if you want it.






Arthur is pretty well right here (it's /Camoflague rather than /conceal). When I was a Master Ranger it was never worth the hassle.It was rumoured that cano to give a small bonus to maskscent, butI never heard of anyone verifying this experimentally.


You can use cammo kits from any planet though, not just the ones you personally can make (so you could buy a Dath kit from another ranger) - but like Arthur said, maskscent is still superior until you get to Master Ranger, against creatures at least. The main advantage of camoflague is that it works against NPC's as well as creatures and can be applied to other people who don't havethemaskscent ability. These days though there are only solo groups and at Master level you can generally kill pretty much anything anyway...........








The only other thing, imho, that is useful in the ranger tree to a BE is tracking which will help you locate the creatures you want to dna sample from. That skill is buggy, and the range over which you can track is pretty small, but yea, it's definitely useful to a BE. You can get pretty good tracking at 0-0-3-0 or 0-0-4-0 will give you better range on your tracking.





The tracking range is actually fixed at 500m for all abilities - the only thing that changes is the level of detail and what you can track. At Ranger 0-0-0-0 it's animals only, and you just know they are in the vicinity. 0-0-1-0 and you get the ability to track NPC's as well. 0-0-2-0 it will tell you thier direction. At 0-0-3-0 you get the distance. All you get extra at 0-0-4-0 is the ability to track other players and the title. (Note: I may have got the 0-0-1-0 and 0-0-2-0 abilities switched around).


The ability is "buggy" in that, due to lag, it will only report on things the client knows are within 500m of you, so usually you'll know all about the mobs you've already passed, but mobs ahead of you may not be reported (i.e. those that haven't "popped"). For this reason it's worth standing still for 10 seconds or so prior to doing an areatrack.


Also it can't report on mobs that are across server boundaries. Mobs in the "overlap zone" may suddenly disappear (and you'll go insane trying to find them!).


High level traps are pretty pathetic and the advanced bases look good, but can be replaced with a basic camp and a droid.


Rangers really need some serious love...............



Gully Foyle
All SOE game accounts cancelled - and this time I'm gone for good
bigjeff5
Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:16 am
#9

*gives GFoyle a hug*

There, feel better now?

Ranger would be good if you are gonna collect meat, and according to the thread Ranger tracking isn't all it's cracked up to be, but would still be pretty useful I would think.

If CH is gonna be your only combat profession, you DEFINITELY want to get 2 cl 35's, and you need to be prepaired to be far less effective in solo combat than any other elite combat prof.

CL 35's can easilly get into the 11-12k health range, with 7-8k action and mind, ar1 and 60% kinetic. But what makes them essential for you is the fact that the damage on these can be pushed up over 400, maybe close to 500, and still have a combined CL of less than 70. 500 damage each might be possible if you sacrifice on the health a little, I'm not sure (and dangit now I'm itching to try it *sighs*). That would give you your best combat viability as a CH.

And you can forget doing any very high end content as a CH with no other combat abilities, pets get chewed up at that level almost regardless of how good they are.

And lastly, if you change your mind about ranger (since 4/0/0/0 scout with BE mask scent clothes is just as good as a ranger's mask), Rifleman would make an excellent pairing for your CH abilities. AND that way you would be viable for ALL content.

And for our thread ranger, do cammo kits work on NPC's in the DWB GFoyle?



Atyyy
Former Master Bio-Engineer
Master Swordsman
Master Dancer
TKA 0/0/0/4

Rhosac
Master Marksman
-almost- novice BH
ArthurDentOnBria
Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:41 am
#10







bigjeff5 wrote:

And for our thread ranger, do cammo kits work on NPC's in the DWB GFoyle?





This is actually a huge bone of contention among rangers. Some rangers claimed that cammo kits worked against NPC's kind of "sporatically" but then they got some feedback from "the devs" that cammo kits were never meant to work against NPC's and that any masking that you saw against NPC's was strictly a bug, lol. I can't recall whether this bug was claimed to have be "fixed" or not since then, lol, and I've kind of last touch with their latest issueswhen I dropped ranger (well, that plus they started bagging on tailors and cheesed me off) a while back so my knowledge is a couple of months old.

Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 09-15-2004 11:45 AM



ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%


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