Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Issues with the new cloning system
I have been following the information Tal, and our correspondent have been posting on the new cloning changes and I have 1 major issue with it so far. The old system we could modify the hams, the to hit, speed and dmg of our clones with 5 samples of DNA. That was ok, but you were unable to truly manipulate the mind, and to hit independently because the stats were controlled by the same dna sample. The same was true with the damage, and speed. The dmg and speed was were we run into the most annoying problem. No mater what the dmg, the speed would go up and the clone would always do the same amount of dmg per sec as the wild animal.
Now our new system we have amour, resistances, specials, and range attacks added into it. But we still have only 5 DNA samples. How do they mix? Is that what psychology has become? Do we now have to make sure that the animal we sample has both special attacks we need, and the resistances we want, for the sample dna sample with do both things? It's already hard to find a dna sample that’s got 2 very high numbers for Hardiness and fortitude, or fierceness and power combined. Now we have to get a sample that has 2 stats in the high 700-1000, and hope that it has the special attack we need?
How is this system going to be easy to use? And fun to play with? I understand that making the cloning system simple with 5 samples. But when 5 samples will dictate the clones, creature level, health, action, mind, to hit, speed, dmg, amour, resistances, (2) special attacks and a range attack. That’s 12 different items. Off of 5 samples.
This will drive the BE's nuts finding the perfect sample with 2-3 or more qualities needed for 1 clone. Then hope we don’t crit fail it twice (once for the clone template, the second in the creature creation) Now with the current system where all were looking for is 2 sets of numbers to match the 5 needed DNA samples. It takes me as a master BE, about 12-15 samples of wild animals to make 1 clone of a good level. How many more times will we have to sample to get that good sample if we add another stat that’s random? The other issue is mixing the dna. If the quality and level of the clone makes the creature level how do we get the ability to mix stats? If we want a good range attack, with a good special on a level 10 animal, but were forced to use dna from level 30 animal because they have the special we need will that make it impossible for us to make the animal we want? That goes for amour and resistances. No low level animal has good resistances, and amour mixed. What if someone wants just an animal for tanking, high ham, high amour, high resistances... can we mix that and dumb down the dmg, to hit, specials and make that animal? From the look of this new cloning system I would say no. For the dmg, and speed are mixed, the to hit, and mind are mixed. How the amour, resistances, and specials are I am not sure, no one has stated but I can only assume that they are also mixed with the other samples.
Now Maybe this can be resolved with experimentation, but from what I have hard on TC experimentation is not enabled at this time. So we have no way to manipulate any stats with any kind of control. I can only hope this is still being tested and will be fixed before release.
I also hope and some may not agree with me, that they break the generic dna template up more into more parts. Break up the items we need to change into separate items. Make it so we can create a template specify for dmg (1 sample for dmg, 1-2 for specials, 1 for to hit, 1 for speed) then make another template for hams, and 1 more for amour/resistances. I know this makes the system more complicated but it give the BE what we have been promised. The ability to manipulate ever stat. The system we have in place on the live servers, and the one on TC at this time douse not give us the ability to modify all the stats independently.
I hope that others see this in the way I do. And that the developers will think how our new cloning changes will work and make adjustments in it to do what they have promised. The ability to change the stats of a clone with accuracy.
Sowi, Master bio-eng Radiant
In answer to the question, how are they going to make it simple to do. The answer is, they aren't. BE has always been the thinking mans crafting profession, and it will remain that, even more so.
You also ask how will we make the CL 10 clone we want with specials and other characteristics that are only found on CL 30 animals in the wild. My best guess is, you won't be able to. The critters with these characteristics are CL 30 for a reason. They are more than likely not going to let us make a CL 10 critter with those things. You might be able to lower CL a small amount, but nothinglike two-thirds.
don't forget the DNA sampling has changed a bit, giving more consistent results instead of completely random.
NOTE: in my example I'm just giving theoretical examples. I don't really know if rancors give high aggresssion, its more of guess but it was usefull to illustrate my point.
I am new to BE ( 1-1-1-1, yes a holo told me to take it ) but on TC i have been able to make a CL 13 durni with a 5k ham and dizzy for the special. I only have 2 experimentation points so there's not a whole lot I can do to change my creations. Most of the DNA for said durni was below average samples from Faambas. I am having trouble pinpointing which slot is used to determine the special or if it's a random thing.
Graeme wrote:
In answer to the question, how are they going to make it simple to do. The answer is, they aren't. BE has always been the thinking mans crafting profession, and it will remain that, even more so.
You also ask how will we make the CL 10 clone we want with specials and other characteristics that are only found on CL 30 animals in the wild. My best guess is, you won't be able to. The critters with these characteristics are CL 30 for a reason. They are more than likely not going to let us make a CL 10 critter with those things. You might be able to lower CL a small amount, but nothinglike two-thirds.
In the current system I can easily fill up my whole inventory with samples, just to find five that have a decent stat pair for a high quality clone.
Now if in the new system I want to make a clone to fill a specific order say CL30 7000+ HAM light armor, 20+ kinetic/energy/acid resist with blind and dizzy (wich is not very unreasonable considering what prowls the wild on TC) I would have to:
A) know the system inside out
B) know wich critters have those abilities and where to find them
C) be lucky enough to find those critters and get decent samples off them
Basically this process sounds more art than sience....
..
hmm as so often while writing stuff down my opinion changes midsentence
This MIGHT be a good thing if implemented right. This could lead to every BE having a few "reciepts" that he developed himself, that noone is able to easily reverse engineer and that will keep him a steady customer base.
BE1: "Heck, how did you get Dizzy and a ranged acid attack togeather with light armor on a CL 25 while keeping the HAM that high? What did you sample?"
BE2: "Sorry, business secret, MUHAHA!"
Could be really cool... basically what I imagined all crafting would be like before I got into beta
So basically this post is somewhat pointless (aside from the standing fact that we WILL need more room for DNA storage), but I think at least I learned from it
How is this system going to be easy to use? And fun to play with? I understand that making the cloning system simple with 5 samples. But when 5 samples will dictate the clones, creature level, health, action, mind, to hit, speed, dmg, amour, resistances, (2) special attacks and a range attack. That’s 12 different items. Off of 5 samples.
It's not going to be easy to use, thats the whole point. You cannot have complexity without the need to think about what your doing and have the skills to manipulate the system. The fun comes from having an understanding of the system and the quest to get certain results. It's far better than the current system where you simply get the highest pairs and some good materials and slap them together. The current system is also very limited compared to the new one since any two bio-engineers who find stats which are 1000 for the pairs and get materials with 1000 for the oq and pe and end up with exactly the same results if they spend experimentation on the same parts.
Under the new system even if you have all of that the soruces of the dna can lead to nearly unlimited end results.
Do we now have to make sure that the animal we sample has both special attacks we need, and the resistances we want, for the sample dna sample with do both things?
Kinda, the phrasing actually is.. we need to find the animals which has the qualities we need. So you'd now need a specific animal and also make sure you get good pairings for the stats you want. For example if you want certain special attacks you need to focus on aggression and physical stats it would seem. So yes, it makes getting dna much harder but then again our items aren't very costly to make in materials so we need to compensate with physical effort to gather the dna.
From what I can see your whole point is a ramble about how you don't like having to make more effort to create clones under this new system... how lazy of you.