Bio Engineer Archive

Thread: Hot Issues

grelgen
Sun May 30, 2004 3:28 pm
#66






Kevm wrote:



It seems appearent that Light Armor adds about 8 CL to a pet with comparable stats but no armor, so what does the above example add to the CL of your clone?





Ive made a twin pair of pets, one was cl 27, had light armor, other was cl 28 no armor. Both were made with the same set of dna, all other stats similar within 1%. so i already know that armor is not used in cl calcs.





nancyjwrote:



I never said any such thing.

I said that there has been no evidence to suggest the the Cl calcuations take into consideration the special attacks on a clone.
As I have said many times before, if you have evidence to the contrary please share it




if you make 2 creatures that follow the above example and they have different CLs, wouldnt that allude to the evidence you need for knowing specials effect CL?







BE?
Kevm
Sun May 30, 2004 4:21 pm
#67






grelgen wrote:


if you make 2 creatures that follow the above example and they have different CLs, wouldnt that allude to the evidence you need for knowing specials effect CL?







Quit talking and show us. How hard is it? Tell us what DNA you used, where you experimented, what your results were. Do this for 1 clone with specials and one without. Report the respective CL's. Show how you got these results so others can duplicate your results.


If you're unwilling to show others what you're so worked up about with evidence and not mere speculation then you might as well keep charging the windmills.





Kreegan Lirpa
MBE - Cairdeas City - Wanderhome

Kreegan's BE Pets and Tissues - Cairdeas City, Naboo (7378 -6482)
Kreegan's Pet Meds - Right outside Coronet on the Map!
grelgen
Sun May 30, 2004 7:26 pm
#68

its not worth having this conversation in a system where all of my posts are simply 1 starred.


Have you tested this at all on your side?


Im just gonna assume your answer is no. Since you wont give me the benefit of the doubt and test this yourself, I dont need to test it because I know the system is flawed, you and your 1 star cohorts can RIP.



BE?
Kevm
Sun May 30, 2004 8:08 pm
#69






grelgen wrote:

its not worth having this conversation in a system where all of my posts are simply 1 starred.


Have you tested this at all on your side?


Im just gonna assume your answer is no. Since you wont give me the benefit of the doubt and test this yourself, I dont need to test it because I know the system is flawed, you and your 1 star cohorts can RIP.







Hmm or maybe the majority of the BE community who doesn't see this at all, and hasn't reported anything like this in the months since the revamp,are right and you're the one who's wrong? If this was such a problem why can't you offer anything but your word for it and why hasn't a single other person said a damn thing?


I've given you the benfit of the doubt which is why I've asked for what proof you have, to show what formulas you've done and the results you achieved. All you've done is offer 1 very questionable formula and said 'Tada! See its proven!'. Why should I take my time to prove your theory? That would be like Darwin telling the Pope 'Hey I've got the Evolution Theory. It works and explains how we are related to apes. You can see this too if you come to these islands and figure it out for yourself, but I'm not going to show you anything, you'll just have to trust me.'


If you were staying in the game, which you aren't, and you really wanted this addressed you'd have to actually prove something. But since you can't offer anything but your word, well then, I guess you can keep crying that you're oppressed and that nobody is listening to your genius. *rollseyes*


Oh and BTW, I can see all posts regardless of their star rating, so crying that you wont offer anything but your word because you're getting 1 stared is beyond juvenile.




Kreegan Lirpa
MBE - Cairdeas City - Wanderhome

Kreegan's BE Pets and Tissues - Cairdeas City, Naboo (7378 -6482)
Kreegan's Pet Meds - Right outside Coronet on the Map!
grelgen
Mon May 31, 2004 12:20 am
#70

so nancy, what yer saying is that, as a comunity leader, one who has supposedly been chosen for your ability to read posts on the boards, you neglected to read any of the previous top 5 threads?


Im not arguing that the top 5 is my personal gripe list. Im arguing that of all the times i've posted this issue, no one has picked up on it. You are correct, the top 5 is a community generated list. I, as part of the community, have been summarily ignored by most of it. Megalomanicly, I'm pretty sure it's because I can see these problems where others cant. This is also why i cant be the correspondent.


Your nuna argument is moot. As a master BE (i hope that you are) you have the experiment points to push nuna dna above it's norm (additionally, you get higher CL DNA when sampling low CL animals, you can see this with resampling). If you notice on the MR combine, you will have points left over.


(Resampling high level CL creatures also gives you higher level CL DNA, but not 5 CLs higher)





BE?
NancyJ
Mon May 31, 2004 12:40 am
#71

The Top 5 issues lists arent submitted on a whim whenever the correspondant feels like it, there is a correct time and format in which to do this - I was not correspondant when the time to submit the list came around.

As stated before, you are the only person to have mentioned this issue and have no data or proof that it exists, is it any wonder then that YOUR issues are overlooked? Because they are your issues and your issues alone, if there was evidence to support your theory then it might become an issue but 1 example is not proof of a problem.

As for the dwarf nuna it is possible to raise its level above the norm using only 1 experiment point.

If you want this issue looking in to then you need to come up with more than - just cos its possible to experiment Mutant Rancor above CL 75.

My job is to represent the needs and feelings of the community - not the individual

Message Edited by NancyJ on 05-30-2004 12:43 PM




Nyria's BioShop
-51 -5732 Tatooine
200m South of Anchorhead


Nyria - Farstar



etopia
Mon May 31, 2004 7:42 am
#72

Well, the "Hot Issues" are basically the same hot issues we have had for the past 6 months. Our main issues appear to be (1) more storage; (2) pet validity issues; (3) BE skill tapes;(4) critical fails on cloning; (5)CL on template at creation. None of these are evidently doable. We are told (1) it is too complicated to get more storage; (2) they do not understand how the pet validity checks are working; (3) we can't have BE skill tapes because the BE profession wasn't developed early in the game as the other professions were, and I'm not sure why we can't get (4) resourses restored on critical fails as the architect/jedi do or (5) why the CL can't appear on the template while crafting, but reguardless of the reasoning, we are not getting relief on these issues.


So perhaps, in order to attain some success in our requests, we need to ask for simple, non-controversial, easy-for-the-devs to implement stuff. In this light, I feel that we should ask for more clothing tissues. I don't sell the weaker tissues at all - seems to be no market for the toughened fibers, the confidence cloth, the passive biosensors or tranquilizers, myoflex, visual camoulfage or the constrictor cloth. Everyone wants the higher level tissues. So in effect, we have 8 sellable tissues. I think we should be able to compete with the current skill attachements & new droids on the market. For example, this could include tissues that could add ranged defense, knockdown or dizzy defense, harvesting bonuses, fire defense, repair bonuses, a terrain negoation bonus, and some offensive combat bonsuses (speed, damage, aiming or accuracy, for example) would be great to compete with/compliment all the skill attachments available.If they can't create BE skill tapes, how about a tissue that adds a bonus to DNA harvesting? There are all sorts of possibilities!


I also think it would not be too complicated to add additional skins to our schematics, but honestly, I only sell maybe 1/10th of the skin types we have available now - I don't think new skins will help our sales at all. The CH profession needs to be made attractive again in order for out pet sales to pick up. And I think itenhances the CH profession to be able to tamea few creatureswe can't make (like thebird or the snake).


So, to sum up, we all -- including me -- want (1) more storage; (2) fixing the pet validity issue; (3) BE skill tapes; (4) relief from critical failures; and (5) CL on templates, but we evidently cannot get any of these issues resolved. So I propose we ask for more clothing tissues this go-round. I think that maybe attainable and will boost our sales. However, if they cannot adapt a medical experimentationCA into a BE experimentationCA, I have little hope that they can adapt a melee defense tissue into a ranged defense tissue, but one can only ask.....


Ebacca


Master BE, Master CH

Akelan
Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:07 pm
#73

Get them to fix fishing, so we can make D level pet stims again. They increased the yield on fileting the fish, and then made it 10x harded to land something.


Honestly, if I lost 8 our ot 10 fish I hooked, Grandpa woulda' disowned me!!


LLan



Talthazar
Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:01 am
#74



Folks, this needs to stop. This is an important thread. Contrary to popular belief, SOE does not lock threads just because they aren't glowing SOE praise. They do lock threads for the ranting and flaming of each that I see going on here.

Some other myths that need to be dispelled:

1) We've never been told we can't have skill tapes

2) We've never been told it's too complicated to get more storage, just that any solution cannot put more data in less space. Quite the contrary, Keldarin allowed it was an issue and said he would consider alternatives that fixed storage in the contraints, i.e. no containers to reduce volume of the same amount of data.

3) We've never been told we can't have more colors.

4) Getting more skins has never been addressed, it's been said it's possible, but there are no new skins to date.

For the record, Grelgen, I never ignored any of your BE concerns. I may have told you that some of your issues in the past didn't belong here, but that was because they were often about merchant, or combat issues and this is the BE board. I always tallied your BE related issues along with everyone elses. The thing to remember is that the Top 5 is a poll. It's designed to see what issues the community in general is most concerned with. If none of your issues have made it to the Top 5 in the past, I'm sorry, but I believe it's not the place of the Correspondent to veto the polling process. To quote from an alternate universe, "The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the one." As far as the argument here, Grelgen, your ideas are contrary to the ideas of many here. If you offered evidence to discuss your viewpoint instead of resorting to flames as you always have, you might find you have a much more receptive audience. Insulting people is one sure-fire way to get them to ignore you.

Message Edited by Talthazar on 06-01-2004 03:27 PM



Brutir Llecc'Honep
Master Bio-engineer - Proprietor - Honep Industries - Kauri
Brutir - Master Bio-Engineer - Test Center
SWG Bio-engineer
Bracci
Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:36 am
#75


FlyMoe wrote:
Here's what I would like to see added, in no particular order :
1. Vendors - Once you get to Master BE, you should automatically get a vendor. I think it's stupid that you have to go up the artisian tree to get one. Every other crafting profession doesn't have to waste 3 experience slots to get a vendor, while we do. Maybe the devs ment for this to happen, but personally I would love to be able to get one at Master.




Just wanted to bump this up to the top and revisit this idea. Other crafting professions *do* have to waste 3 experience slots to get a vendor, *but* they don't have to spend the extra 15 skill points for novice artisan. With discussions on the Merchant forums about "poached" vendors being removed, this issue should be near the top for our profession in my opinion. As a Master Doctor/Master Bio-Engineer (two of the crafting professions that don't require novice artisan), I admit I had to poach a vendor. With only 18 skill points left (assuming *no* exploration - so Pet crafting is out of the question were I to pursue this option), I could only pick up novice artisan. I could only pick up business 1! B-E has two functions in this game - crafting and base destruction. Why should we have to be 100% crafting in order to have a "legal" vendor?

As I posted before, I think many B-E would be fine with just the Business III vendors. We don't need the barking, nor do we need the neat looking NPC vendors. Hell, I'd even pay higher maintenance than merchants do. The merchants seem to think that everyone that is out there that is "vendor poaching" is going all the way up merchant, when the reality of the situation is many of us have absolutely no desire to even touch that profession. I don't think that the Artisans nor the Merchants would argue with us getting a Vendor. I would actually suggest you get one at Master B-E, one at Master Doctor, one at Master Ranger (for selling what you harvest), one at Master Combat Medic (yeah, they're a crafting profession too - even if many people are calling for em to get nerfed to hoth and back), and one at each of the Master Crafting Professions. However, cap your vendors at +1 until novice merchant is acquired. (It'd be nice to have one vendor for my B-E stuff and one for my Doctor stuff, but I'm fine using one).

I think we also as a profession need to speak up on the topics of:
a) Vendor Restocking - the Merchant Forum has a few great ideas for "resell" for when your items don't sell in a month. http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=merchant&message.id=28625
b) Directed Sales - making orders buyable by particular people, so that we can more easily barter with some of our customers.
c) Vendor Caps - Apparently there is discussion about limiting the number of items for sale on a vendor at 150. I know many of us will get screwed on this one since we deal in such bulk items - especially our chef tissues. I've heard mention several times ThunderHeart saying that they'd be nerfed soon - just no official date. The Tailors have screamed their heads off (as well they should - this is a game breaker for a master tailor), but I have yet to see TH back down on this one.
d) Factory Limits - There is discussion about limiting factory runs to 100 again - we *really* need to speak out against this since it significantly affects not only our pet stims and vitality packs, but also our tissue sales. http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=artisan&message.id=39131


I had more, but while I was checking links I got "the forums are undergoing maintenance". Since it was 4:30 am I just decided to ctrl+c, save, and go to bed...
NancyJ
Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:36 am
#76



Bracci wrote: I don't think that the Artisans nor the Merchants would argue with us getting a Vendor.



...actually yes they would.

Some artisans would argue that every crafting profession should get a vendor at master and some merchants would argue that no-one should get vendors without the skill point investment.

As for Doctors, Rangers and CM's getting vendors at master - I dont think they should. If a doc/ranger/cm wishes to sell their products that is a *choice* not a requirement of the profession, their crafting is intended for personal use only. Selling their products is an optional extra and should cost extra skill points.
BE is different because it is the only non artisan based crafting profession. We also require many more skills that just BE to sucessfully perform our jobs.




Nyria's BioShop
-51 -5732 Tatooine
200m South of Anchorhead


Nyria - Farstar



Akelan
Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:34 am
#77

" We also require many more skills that just BE to sucessfully perform our jobs. "


I've used the same argument, but I don't know if it actually can be proven to be true.


We can collect milk, eggs, fish and mollusk ourselves, without additional skills.


We can collect DNA from non-agressive creatures to level 70 (Young Malkloc Plainswalkers) without investing in mask scent.


We can run factories with purchased components, and either hire surveyors for waypoints for our flora and inorganic resource harvesters, or offer our services to customers who supply the components/resources to us.


In other words, we can be successfully functioning Master BE's without anything but the absolute minimum requirements of the profession template.


Is it useful to spend 14 more points on mask scent so we can sample agressives? I think we would all agree that it is very worthwhile. Is it nice to have the survey skills, CH skills to train and use some of our pets, doctor crafting skills to make better stims, combat skills to take down the creatures to harvest resources,or tracking skills to find better things to sample? Most certainly. But are any of those skills REQUIRED to be a master BE and be successful in our profession? I don't think we can actually PROVE that any of these useful adjuncts are required, even if we all assume we need them to fulfil our own "personal" view of a BE's role.


It's just a different side of the coin, but one that has just as much justification as our arguments for needing these other skills.

Something to think about as we make our assumptions; as much as there is that needs fixing about BE, I much admit they did make a pretty well defined template for the core requrements of the profession.


LLan
NancyJ
Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:40 am
#78

...you can actually sample aggressives without mask scent - I've done it lol - I had somone offer 3 millions for a set of triplets - well I couldnt turn it down so off I went to endor with no mask scent and came home 3 million richer lol.

That being said it is unreasonable IMO to expect a serious pet crafter to get by without minimum of exploration 2 - particularly with the increased DB rates. (BTW anyone got an update on those? How are they affecting you all generally?) Even non-aggresives are more likely to aggro when you sample if you have no mask scent.




Nyria's BioShop
-51 -5732 Tatooine
200m South of Anchorhead


Nyria - Farstar



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