Bio Engineer Archive

I keep going back to a question I asked a few days ago here. The pet check code seems to have been put in to correct errors in crafting that had pets that weren't supposed to be level 10 but were. That being said it follows that the expectation should have been that the pets in question were crafted before the check otherwise why not just make them the right level in the first place...right? If that is logical then maybe it is also logical to assume that the fact that this is still occuring on new BE pets is in fact the result of some bug in the CL coding that takes place when the pet is made.

If that is true the next step would be in trying to help the devs figure out how and why the pets are coded as a CL 10 at creation when they aren't supposed to be a CL 10. If I were doing that I would try to get as many examples as possible and let the "fix code" change the stats instead of the CL level and then look at what it changed. Is there a pattern? Does one emerge if you look at enough samples? Someone here on these forums may have already done this and maybe it isn't as simple as it appears (it usually isn't) but I think looking to prevent the pet check code from ever finding another bad cl level is a better goal than fighting for formulas that the devs don't want to give out.

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DocSavag wrote:

I keep going back to a question I asked a few days ago here. The pet check code seems to have been put in to correct errors in crafting that had pets that weren't supposed to be level 10 but were. That being said it follows that the expectation should have been that the pets in question were crafted before the check otherwise why not just make them the right level in the first place...right? If that is logical then maybe it is also logical to assume that the fact that this is still occuring on new BE pets is in fact the result of some bug in the CL coding that takes place when the pet is made.

If that is true the next step would be in trying to help the devs figure out how and why the pets are coded as a CL 10 at creation when they aren't supposed to be a CL 10. If I were doing that I would try to get as many examples as possible and let the "fix code" change the stats instead of the CL level and then look at what it changed. Is there a pattern? Does one emerge if you look at enough samples? Someone here on these forums may have already done this and maybe it isn't as simple as it appears (it usually isn't) but I think looking to prevent the pet check code from ever finding another bad cl level is a better goal than fighting for formulas that the devs don't want to give out.

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i think it still stems from the original problem with the nocuous kamurith DNA and the light armor mod on the DNA sample

since the last hot-fix, nancyj posted her results in experimentation on the level jumps from each specific experimentation poitn used....... basically her results were (paraphrased of course) that physical makes the mod jump the most, and psychological makes the lest jump (in her experiment, there was no jump)

she used dwarf nuna, vulnerable to stun only, an theorized that effective resists might make cl jump significantly more than any other aspect of the dna template

i think the light armor still holds true that if light armor is not acheived, it will drop several levels..... if the effective resists are weeded out with vulnerabilities, it will drop considerably also...... leading to the current 10k HAM, 60 kinetic pets that have surfaced recently

does anyone think i'm getting hotter with this or way colder in finding the problem?

What i'd really like to do is repeat the same experiments using domestic tusk cat, humbaba and wrix DNA.
The Domestic Tusk Cat is CL 18 and has 5% Special Protection resists to all but stun (vuln), when raising physique the resists will not raise.
The Humbaba has exactly the same resists as the domestic tusk cat but a few k less ham and is cl 17 - however its resists are effective and will raise when physique is raised.
The wrix has 0 effective resists to all but stun(vuln) and is cl 12, I'm hoping that its possible to raise the physique high enough to raise those resists up as close to 5 as possible and just basically compare the CL's of the 3 combinations and the level increases they get from experimentation.

Message Edited by Luxorblack on 05-16-2004 08:40 AM

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GotharMarath wrote:

I am not sure how viable that is Arthur. I have 7 formulas (with 2 more almost there) that work to varied degrees in creating these monster CL 10s. I also have 50 pages or so of test results. I have distinctly noticed how I can have one set of stats VERY similar to another set of stats made from different DNA combos. We are talking all of the 10 substats are very similar, and one might come out level 9, while the other is level 18. I definitely think that there are some substats that we do not have access to that play into the level.

However, should the devs ask, I would be happy to give every recipe I have to them to help break down the cause and get it fixed. I would rather have free reign to sample and create unfettered, knowing that anything I make will be as the deed says and usable as such, than the ability to create Ubers in an atmosphere of finger pointing and uncertainty.

Still, that said, when I quit BE I think I will put up pics of a few of my most successful Uber CL10 experiments to give you guys a real idea of how big the loophole on CL10s is. I like making the best, and I have made some MEAN Non-CH mofo's that are more evil than anything I have seen posted, as have some of the other, less vocal Mad Scientists, I am sure....

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That is the key right there. You can create two different pets with very similar stats. One has nearly twice the CL as the other. Clearly the animals stats have nothing to do with CL that is assigned to it. If you remember when the game first came out, CL didn't mean anything at all. It was mearly suggestive that an animal may more may not have hard. You had some wild CL30s that could take down some CL70s. They went through in the fall and redid all the animals so their stats match their CL better. However it is still artifical. They did the BE revamp quick and dirty. The CL seems more based off the animal's DNA used than any stats on the template. There must be some internal numbers given to certian animals that are considered along with however much experimentation is done that generates the CL, not the stats. Some animals get away with high stats while having that low internal CL number. This when carried over to the BE pet, gives it a lower CL than what the numbers suggest. The invalid check system must some how look at those internal numbers and then decides if the animal is right or wrong. It can't seems to do this on a deed, but only on an actual animal, hence the check at taming. This is the core of the problem, and that is a real problem. It is the core of our pet making programing that is messed up and this sounds like a major job. I don't see them fitting a full revamp in the schedule at this point.

Thank the makers for chef tissues, about all we have, unless you are in the exploit pet market.

The DNA quality plays a part in it. One CL10 recipe called for lower quality DNA to be used. As for the skill, I mastered a few days after the revamp. I was able to make some good low level pets. So I don't think skill plays much into the CL. Seems more dependant on what animal is uses to get the dna from.

Correspondents Selectedfficeffice" />

After returning from E3, I was eager to choose the correspondents. Again, I have been totally amazed at how many great candidate letters came in. Our community is full of very intelligent, very thoughtful people who have a passion for this game and this community and the quality of people here is just awesome.

In the case of each correspondent position, it was a very, very difficult choice. I actually spent much of the afternoon lurking through everyone’s posts, re-reading letters and lurking again. For those of you that were not selected please don’t be discouraged. It surely wasn’t personal. In many respects, they were difficult decisions, because so many of you are more than qualified to act as representatives for your communities. Another thing that is helpful to keep in mind is that the correspondent program isn’t on an automatic term limitation, but real-life activities and other variables have caused most positions to last about 60-90 days. Some are longer and some are shorter, but there will always be an opportunity to climb into the saddle.

Many thanks to all of you who took the time to write me fantastic candidacy letters and curse you for making it such a difficult decision Most importantly, kudos to each and every one of you for being a part of this great community.

Those that were chosen are listed below. I’ve sent out acceptance letters and we’ll get them upgraded to correspondent status as quickly as possible.

Congratulations to:

Bio Engineer Correspondent: NancyJ

Brawler Correspondent: Mapai

Medic Correspondent: MasterNerfSlayer

Politician Correspondent: Pappi

Squad Leader Correspondent: Irott

Teras Kasi Correspondent: DrArgule

Please welcome them aboard!

Congratulations to Nancy] !! Best of luck.

As far as CL is concerned, the system is screwed up. CL is the resulting product. Although DNA & Skill may have a lot to do with creating the pet, it's the outcomes that are wrong.

#1 lvl 16: 3.2, 3.5,2.5 ham. 34 kinetic, 34 energy, rest none. 30-40 dmg

#2 lvl 16 9.5,7.4,8.5 ham, 31 kinetic, 30 heat, 32 cold. 280-290 dmg, 1 special.

See anything wrong with this picture? I sure do. I don't ask for an exact formula, I agree there should be some variation. On the other hand, does the code really have a clue about CL??

#1 lvl 16: 3.2, 3.5,2.5 ham. 34 kinetic, 34 energy, rest none. 30-40 dmg

#2 lvl 16 9.5,7.4,8.5 ham, 31 kinetic, 30 heat, 32 cold. 280-290 dmg, 1 special.

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Hi. You are missing certain vital information which would be needed to compare these creatures. First and most importantly is the to hit chance (based off cleverness) and secondly is the vulnerabilities as opposed to just zero resist.

I have just about got a relationship between the 10 dna values and resists and cl levels (to within +/- one) - although to date my only testing has beena range of creatures I have made from alimited (five creatures in different combines) gene pool stock, so before I post it I want to test it against wider stock.

One surprising result which has been thrown up is that cleverness (which governs the chance to hit) appears to have ten times (yes ten times) the weighting of hardiness and energy resist twice the impact of kinetic. Kinetic has about four times more impact than any of the others (this is the least tested part of my formula).Take a look at your creatures with this in mind. The first has both kinetic and the very expensive energy. The second has a lot more ham, but that is not very expensive.Power is quite expensive (the damage) but what is the cleverness rating? Does the first have a higher "to hit" chance?

If the second creature has a vulnerability in energy then that acts as a huge "minus" on the creature level and I wouldn't be at all surprisedat these results, even if the "to hit" chance is similar.

Zardo

Congrats, Nancy! Best of luck to ya!