Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Publish 17, BioE changes (formerly on TC: May 20, 2005... now on TC-Bria)
I don't play on TC but I got a CL10 frogged pet when I was testing the curb. That was one nice cu pa I must say. Nice that TC pets auto-grow. I kind of understand why TC players and live players have a little bit of a disconnect now. 
I'm mainly interested in whether or not I lose harvest rights if my pet kills the mob or I kill the mob. As one poster above brought to light, if I am in a group and do no damage at all I can still harvest from the corpse. Why would my using a CL10 pet create a no-loot situation? It could be the devs are differentiating between harvesting and looting however. A good check would be to kill an evil hermit using only my pet and see if I still get to loot the 13 credits they always seem to carry. 
Combatants will be mainly interested in the xp reduction. I can wrap my mind around the reasoning behind this with the exception that it only applies to non-creature handler pets, as stated in the patch notes. Patch notes have never been known for clarity however. It could well be that using any pet results in all combatxp reduction with the exception of creature handler xp. I hope the creature handlers are checking to see if this is the case or not.
I'll have more time to explore this on the weekend. I just need to find a wild animal I can get more than 1 xp from without dying myself, then see how much the reduction is when I use a pet.
Spazzers wrote:I don't play on TC but I got a CL10 frogged pet when I was testing the curb. That was one nice cu pa I must say. Nice that TC pets auto-grow. I kind of understand why TC players and live players have a little bit of a disconnect now.
I'm mainly interested in whether or not I lose harvest rights if my pet kills the mob or I kill the mob. As one poster above brought to light, if I am in a group and do no damage at all I can still harvest from the corpse. Why would my using a CL10 pet create a no-loot situation? It could be the devs are differentiating between harvesting and looting however. A good check would be to kill an evil hermit using only my pet and see if I still get to loot the 13 credits they always seem to carry.
Combatants will be mainly interested in the xp reduction. I can wrap my mind around the reasoning behind this with the exception that it only applies to non-creature handler pets, as stated in the patch notes. Patch notes have never been known for clarity however. It could well be that using any pet results in all combat xp reduction with the exception of creature handler xp. I hope the creature handlers are checking to see if this is the case or not.
I'll have more time to explore this on the weekend. I just need to find a wild animal I can get more than 1 xp from without dying myself, then see how much the reduction is when I use a pet.
pets are insta-growing on TC-Bria. they don't insta-grow on TC. TC, when it is online, plays by the same rules as a production server, with two exceptions:
1) new code (except following the CU, when six or seven code versions bypassed TC and went directly Live)
2) three toons per server, instead of one.
also, as noted twice above, xp on TC-Bria is bugged. until this is fixed, you will NOT be able to test the xp aspect of the change.
until we know how this change is actually implemented, all arguments concerning it are merely guesses.
EDIT: also, stats from 'frog items' are NOT representative or realistic.
Message Edited by lammergeier on 05-25-2005 04:52 PM
Uhmm...you wanna chill a bit?
There is no argument.This isa discussion which is what the forums are for. Does not the patch note read that using a non-creature handler pet may result in an xp reduction and or a no-kill situation? Is that not something a non-creature handler pet manufacture have a vested interest in? And I never said the frogged pet was indictive of crafted items. I said it was a very nice cu pa.
I read the part about the xp being bugged...both times. I would hope that by this weekend, when I'm able to test and have stated so...twice, that this bug would be fixed. It doesn't surprise meone bit, however,that a patch would be implemented that can't be tested due to a bug. Does that sound discussionary or argumentative? Regardless, I'm still not surprised.
Man, if live players were able to have 3 characters per server this game and its economy would be very different.
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:
This statement is a bit too conveniently self-serving for me to take completely seriously, even though I do have some sympathy for it.
Joker9125 wrote:
This fix ensures that the only combat viable pets will be in the hands of the CHs,as it should be.
Why dont you hear MRs complaining about CDEF rifles being overpowered? Or Pistoleers complaining about CDEF pistols? The answer is that the stats on those are pretty much capped at uselessness. However because the BE pet crafting system is so flexable its possible to create a pet that anyone can use thatwill actually be viable in combat. This brings CL10 pets in line with other low level weapons it just does it in a different way.
I personally think is a great compromise. Rather than capping the stats on a CL10 pet at something useless like 200 HAM and 1-50 damagethe devs are allowing BE pet crafting to remain flexable enough to allow pets that can divert agro if you get attacked checking your harvesters.
Spazzers wrote:
The hate system does not allow aggro to be diverted. The CL10 "typical" pet does not do enough damage. To be honest, many creature handler pets do not do enough damage to hold aggro depending on the CL and weapon of the pet owner.
I can appreciate the sentiment on the part of creature handlers but what you're really asking, in all intents and purposes, is to have non-creature handler pets become useless simply because an owner is punished by less xp or possibly a no loot situation by the meer fact their pet does too much damage.
I would ask, as a side note, are you concerned that this xp reduction may apply to creature handler pets as well? What if your creature handler pet results in a no loot situation? Would you still remain a creature handler? It's something to think about and something to get on TC and inspect, of course after they fix the xp bug.
I dont think I quite follow what your saying here. I never mentioned anything about the hate system in my earlier post. I said that instead of making CL10 pets completely useless they allowed them to remain powerfull enough to guard crafterswhile checking harvesters. While making sure that their was no advantage to using them in actual combat.
Again I dont really follow you. What is it you think I'm asking for?
No I'm not concerned actually. The note are pretty specific that this applies toNON-CH pets. And if it turns out it doesapply to CH petsit is obviously a bug that will be fixed "eventually".
Yes I would still remain a CH and for future reference asking me if any ammount of nerfing to the profession will make me drop it is useless because I will absolutely NEVER drop it. So please forget about using that in any discussion with me ever.
Ohh by the way.
Whats you name on Guild Wars?
I'm Joker Twoface
Spazzers wrote:Non-CH pet damage will now reduce XP amounts granted and possibly result in no kill rights. CH pet damage will still count towards CH XP
anyone been TESTING this on the new code? guesses and theories don't give me information to offer the devs.
I'm working on the cloning changes, and until I can create a nonCH pet, I can't do much to test this myself.
lammergeier wrote:
Spazzers wrote:
Non-CH pet damage will now reduce XP amounts granted and possibly result in no kill rights. CH pet damage will still count towards CH XP
anyone been TESTING this on the new code? guesses and theories don't give me information to offer the devs.
I'm working on the cloning changes, and until I can create a nonCH pet, I can't do much to test this myself.
When it comes back up, I'll run some yard trash. Been working on tissues on clothing. At least 1 of the skill mods do not transfer correctly to the finished clothing product. But I'll get to the yard trash cause it looks like no one else wants it. If TC prime were up, I have several lvl 10 pets I could test this with. But.........
*hosed again because of poor planning*
You still have to grow the animal and have it trained in combat skills. A good test would be to simply sic the adult pet on a CL3 minor worrt, sit and watch the battle, then see if you can harvest from the corpse.
The second part would be to sic the pet on another worrt, wait until the worrt is almost dead, then shoot the worrt and see how much xp you get.
I cancraft an animal this evening and let it grow and see if I can get it trained. My schedule won't allow me to do any real testing until this weekend however. Hopefully we'll have some data to present to the developers just in time to watch it go live anyway. (j/k...but not really though)
Joker9125 wrote:
I dont think I quite follow what your saying here. I never mentioned anything about the hate system in my earlier post. I said that instead of making CL10 pets completely useless they allowed them to remain powerfull enough to guard crafterswhile checking harvesters. While making sure that their was no advantage to using them in actual combat.
Again I dont really follow you. What is it you think I'm asking for?
No I'm not concerned actually. The note are pretty specific that this applies toNON-CH pets. And if it turns out it doesapply to CH petsit is obviously a bug that will be fixed "eventually".
Yes I would still remain a CH and for future reference asking me if any ammount of nerfing to the profession will make me drop it is useless because I will absolutely NEVER drop it. So please forget about using that in any discussion with me ever.
Ohh by the way.
Whats you name on Guild Wars?
I'm Joker Twoface
What I am getting at regarding the hate system is that any animal, regardless of the CL, will not hold aggro if they do less damage than the player. If you have an auto attack selected and you outdamage your pet, the animal will provide you with no protection. This, in and of itself, removes the tanking ability of many pets. This is already in the live game.
On the converse, if a crafter is doing a harvester run and owns a CL10 that does decent damage along with decent health, the crafter is penalized by not being able to harvest or loot the corpse, possibly. Or, if the crafter is trying to advance in a weapon skill, their xpmay bereduced simply because they happen to be a non-creature handler pet owner.
I have, in many cases, used a pet to kill kreetles for scaley hidebecause I have very little combat. This proposal could create a situation where I might not be able to harvest the hide because my animal did all ofthe killing. That's what I'm getting at.
If this is the case, and again it would require testing, non-creature handlers pets are devalued even more than they already arebecause ofthe higher risk and lower benefit they offer a potential customer.
Yes, the note reads non-creature handler animals. Patch notes have never been known to be clear and concise. I would recommend testing creature handler pets to ensure this does not apply to them. You may remain a die hard creature handler under any situation but I'd bet real money many people would not if creature handler animals caused a no-kill rights situation. The question wasn't meant to be specific to you and you alone. It was more of a generalized something to think about sort of thing, and something that I'd recommend testing.
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