Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: BE and vendors
Page 4 of 4
RancorPoker
Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:28 pm
#40
Not true. I know docs who just sell stims on their vendors, smugglers who sell spice, combat medics who sell poisons, and rangers who sell traps, camps, and camo kits. All these professions come with draft schematics with their skills and use factories to make bulk items. They still need artisan to get their vendors. With that in mind, we're not alone in that dept. However, the only real difference is we're purely a crafting class unlike the other support roles who have options to do other things.
BulgertheHutt wrote:
/snip
I understand "everyone will want one" could be a problem, but we are the only crafting profession that does not run through artisan and so it seems to me we're justified in asking for one. Simply add the following skill to Tissues IV: "vendor +1." Or if they want to put up even more of a barrier, make it a master level skill. That should dissuade anyone from doing BE just to get the vendor bonus.
Seiryuu
Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:41 pm
#41
We are not the only crafting class that has no artisan requirement either...
They make products so they are able to use them within the same profession. BEs make a product for other professions. The very nature of our profession requires us to sell goods.
We are a pure crafting class while they are not. That is a very important differance.
They make products so they are able to use them within the same profession. BEs make a product for other professions. The very nature of our profession requires us to sell goods.
We are a pure crafting class while they are not. That is a very important differance.
c00kie
Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:07 am
#42
Spazzers wrote:
I'd give up the medic skills much faster than I would hunting. If hunting were not a requirement for BE I'd still have it so I could collect the meat I need.I can see a customer asking for a tissue and the critter that drops the meat I need is doing the "nannynanny you can't get me" dance right on my front door step.I'd have to get a guildie to harvest it for me or buy it off the bazaar.
Swap medic for explore before you swap hunting for explore. We absolutely need the mask scent abilities so most of us have explore alreadyand use the skill. We must have hunting and I'll bet most of us use that skill as well. The medic skills aren't nearly as necessary since to be competitive in the pet med market you need advanced components from a doctor.
The difference in hunting 4 vs novice scout is noticable with meat collection... but the bottom line is you can STILL collect the meat. But a harvesting droid if you are looking for more, it will out do you at hunting 4 too.
But just like you said
"We absolutely need the mask scent abilities so most of us have explore alreadyand use the skill"
SO explore is a viable siwtch from hunting.
I still say medic is good... it makes us a nice hybrid... I personally don't want to have to buy my components to make pet stims... Doc's don't tend to sale stuff cheap anyway... without medic we would need 1 line of scout and it frees a ton of points, which I think makes BE slightly overpowered profession wise... and I think we would see a lot more masters out there...
PurpleWarrior
Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:22 pm
#43
ok - valid point. Just trying to be nice to the Docs and CMs too
Seiryuu wrote:
They make products so they are able to use them within the same profession. BEs make a product for other professions. The very nature of our profession requires us to sell goods.
We are a pure crafting class while they are not. That is a very important differance.
obeewan
Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:28 pm
#44
I don't know how I missed this post for so long..
What would make me happy?
I've mentioned before ..a new tissue
A merchant tissue, +1 to hiring only usable by non artisian crafters.
Though speaking of Bio-Engineers
Bio-engineers are THE ONLY PROFESSION (i know of) where THREElines are necessary in two trees.
Organic Chemistry, Hunting AND Exploration
And DON'T anyone tell me we don't need them ALL please.
/hugs
Novock
Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:44 am
#45
So what about simply dropping the medic requirement? That would only put us on the same point requirement (eliminating the merchant discussion for a moment) as all the other crafting professions. That would free up 29 point for us to use somewhere else (possibly business 4). Still seems like a good idea to me and this wouldn't hurt any current template. If you like having the medic skills you simply keep em. What I guess the more important question for me is NancyJ will you be making any suggestion for a change to our prerequisites or will you be trying to squeeze a vendor out of em lol.
NancyJ
Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:22 pm
#46
Okey Dokey I have permission to give you some more info in a paraphrased manner.
Will we ever get vendors as a BE skill?: No
Will you ever change our prerequisites?: unlikely
Why not? 1 skill point does not equal 1 skill point, at the end of the day everyone has 250 skill points so its balanced overall.
Bio-Engineers can be merchants with 37 skill points left over.
If a tissue specialist wants to be self sufficient they can get survey 2 and still have enough left for marksman rifles 4(or any other comabt skill) to have safety in the field and be able to harvest their own meat and survey for their own resources.
In comparision a chef wanting to do the same thing could be master chef, master merchant and have 81 points spare, which hey could spend on survey 2, hunting 4, marksman rifles 4 and novice medic, meaning their as self sufficient as the BE template.
So this scenario is balanced.
Arguments could be made about the value of being a Master Chef vs Master BE. Master Chef is much more specialized in what they can craft and provide so in theory Master BE may be more valuable. They have a much broader market with their clothing enhancers, food enhancers, creatures and pet medicines. I do understand that in the current economy there is a much higher desire for food buffs (a few specific ones for sure ) than many of the products BEs provide. This is the much bigger problem. The BE products probably need to be made more valuable or there needs to be additional useful products added. This unfortunately is the much harder thing to do.
I do realize that there are many different scenarios of BE templates that are more or less balanced depending on what the desired outcome for the template is, but this is true for every profession. Ultimately my point is just that comparing skill points is not always so simple
He also said that I should let you know that they are discussing the issue and working out solutions....
so where this leaves us /shrug I dunno, I guess we wait and see.
Will we ever get vendors as a BE skill?: No
Will you ever change our prerequisites?: unlikely
Why not? 1 skill point does not equal 1 skill point, at the end of the day everyone has 250 skill points so its balanced overall.
Bio-Engineers can be merchants with 37 skill points left over.
If a tissue specialist wants to be self sufficient they can get survey 2 and still have enough left for marksman rifles 4(or any other comabt skill) to have safety in the field and be able to harvest their own meat and survey for their own resources.
In comparision a chef wanting to do the same thing could be master chef, master merchant and have 81 points spare, which hey could spend on survey 2, hunting 4, marksman rifles 4 and novice medic, meaning their as self sufficient as the BE template.
So this scenario is balanced.
Arguments could be made about the value of being a Master Chef vs Master BE. Master Chef is much more specialized in what they can craft and provide so in theory Master BE may be more valuable. They have a much broader market with their clothing enhancers, food enhancers, creatures and pet medicines. I do understand that in the current economy there is a much higher desire for food buffs (a few specific ones for sure ) than many of the products BEs provide. This is the much bigger problem. The BE products probably need to be made more valuable or there needs to be additional useful products added. This unfortunately is the much harder thing to do.
I do realize that there are many different scenarios of BE templates that are more or less balanced depending on what the desired outcome for the template is, but this is true for every profession. Ultimately my point is just that comparing skill points is not always so simple
He also said that I should let you know that they are discussing the issue and working out solutions....
so where this leaves us /shrug I dunno, I guess we wait and see.
ArthurDentOnBria
Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:43 pm
#47
Here is what I don't understand...
the devs are paranoid about monopolies correct? So what do they do? They change the merchant class so that only people who are high level merchants can offer a wide variety of products through their vendors. So who is affected? Is it the guy with 5 accounts and 100 lots (i.e. the monopoly)? Nope, doesn't affect that guy one bit. In fact, that guy now has additional vendor to use, and he's tickled pink by this change. The guy it affects the most is the guy who is trying to get by using 1 account, and only his own lots, and is in a desperate need of more skill points.
What they say is 100% inconsistent with their actions.... why are we doing this merchant nerf again?
As far as comparing BE to chef and coming to the conclusion that BE is "more valuable".... they do play this game that they created... right?
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 08-23-2004 03:48 PM
Shivash
Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:44 pm
#48
Due to the fact we have to spend 15 more points to get a vendor than an artisan but ARE a crafting skill I've spent some time chatting to the merchant corr on this subject. IMO they should make a MBE provide (assuming the code can take it) a direct qualification for novice merchant. This means we'd get 2 less vendors than an artisan but that's not a real problem.
Seiryuu
Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:46 pm
#49
Why not? 1 skill point does not equal 1 skill point, at the end of the day everyone has 250 skill points so its balanced overall.
*shakes her head in disgust*
Good-bye and thanks for all the fish.
*shakes her head in disgust*
Good-bye and thanks for all the fish.
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