Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Prices
Dayln wrote:Starting to get personal again Adune, does that mean you are about to concede?
I conceded last week. I can't keep up with your drivel.
well its obviously that dayln has his opinion to every valid arguement and he always thinks he is doing very well.
let me tell u something, i am leading a real life company and be sure i know what i am talking about.
sure you make a win in your eyes, but a real businessman would not try to make the minimal win, he would try to get the highest win which the market can offer you.
and that u sell finished products, with alot costs, fail risks and skill requirements, plus your time invested (which u obviously dont count at all) for prices which are under that what you can get for sthe pure resources, thats what messes your difinition of making profit up.
such shows that you are not a good businessman. also not to keep in mind tat u one sell most stuff we can make and very soon, which wont take much time, we wont sell many structures per week, cause market is feed. all such you cant see and dont calculate it into your prices. when you reach the point not anymore selling steady (which will come for sure) then u get no win at all left. all business men have to safe up reserves for worse times to cover temporary losses. all such u miss to count in in your calculations.
please dayln if u bring over and over again rl compares then think wise about it and count really all into your calculations.
its rediculous also, that the highest value goods in SWG are worth a crap compared in real life.
how many ppl in RL safe up for years money to be finaly able to own a house or even an apartment. in SWG all other goods are more worth then housings.
i knw very well, that this isnt RL, but dont u think a gun more expensive then a whole house is a rediculous price sheme? something is uber wrong here in SWG.
pricings isnt just about costs of resources. the worth of items is totally wrong here.
this isnt an attack, but i just wish you would finally understand what so many peoplle here try to explain to you.
The simple fact of the matter isthatif you are charging such incredibly low prices for goods then you could make more money by selling the resources directly.Daylin consistently claims to be a good businessman, but I don't really see how selling at such low prices demonstratesthat, and to put it simply: I fail to see how choosing a businesspath that makes less moneyover a path which is simpler and less risky to implement (ie choosing to sell architect goods over selling the resources) could possibly be concieved as intelligent business practice.
And I find it humorous that Daylin continually lectures us about real-world business. First of all, this game's economy is a dramatically different environment from mostreal-world economic systems, and secondly, I have seen no evidence that he has any experience in real-world business at all (although I could always be mistaken). I don't have any desire to detail all the specifics, but let me just leave it at saying that members ofmy family have had a lot of experience in running and managingbusinesses over the years, and I have been exposed to business practices from an early age,so I know good business when I see it. Andusing materials to make products that areof less market valuethan the original materialsis not smart business. And since Daylin and some others price their goods at less than what thematerials would sell for, they seem to affirm the idea that the materials are worth more than the product, and therefore they don't appear to be very apt businessmen to me.
My prices are not all that low, Just a few k or 10s of k under the going rate. They fluctuate all the time, it changes with the market.
But I defend those that sell lower than I do, becasue they have every right to set thier own price. It will crack me up when they drive you ( and possibly me ) out of business while still making a profit and you guys will talk about what idiots they are.
Nice defense reflex, it is like driving a car, anyone driving slower than you is an "Idiot" and anyone that drives faster then you is a "Maniaic".
No, I'm afraid that no matter how many times you try to rephrase or obfuscate, selling goods at less than cost still fails to qualify as good business. You can make protestations all day that you are selling well above cost because it is so cheap to mine materials, but the simple fact of the matter is thatwhenyou examine the details of the process, youdo come out with a deficit. You may go out and mine materials for 10^-43 credits and then turn those materials into an end product which you sell for more than what it cost you to mine those materials. This may seem to you like you are not losing anything, but the fact of the matter is that you are. You lose those materials and the value associated with them, whether or not you gain money from the overall process. You may enjoy making andselling architectural goods more than selling the materials, and if that is so, then that might be valid justification, but a desire for the most overall profit in the long term(which I think could be defined as the goal of good business practice) is simply not able to justify what you are doing.
You could just as easily provide your goods at cost or even by running missions to provide the goods for free, and while that might drive away your competition, it would not represent good business. I can see thatyou might enjoy selling architectual goods, as that carries far more noteriety than simply selling resources,and therefore use that as your motivating factor to sell at such a low price, but that does not make you a better businessman than someonethat you drive out of the market because he/she wishes to make money and is unwilling to sell structures for so little cost as you are,when more profitable markets are so readilyavailable.
You are right, no matter how may times I re-phrase it, you don’t have the capacity to understand it.
So call the people that drive you out of business with their own successful businesses idiots. By your measures the guys in the unemployment lines are the smartest businessmenthere were,while Sam Walton was just he biggest unsuccessful fool in America.
Yeah, I give up, you are not going to get it.
I did not call you an idiot and I, unlike yourself, have refrained from resorting to personalinsults. I can assure you that I more than fully grasp what you are trying to say, and have provided a response to it based on rational arguementation. And instead of trying to counter my point though an intelligent dialogue, you have simply decided to arbitrarilydismiss it and attempt to patronize me instead.
Now since you seem to be so intent on demonstrating your inability to recognise any sort of analogous relationship between game and real-world economics, I will attempt to provideclarificationthat might be appropriate for someone of your clearly superior mental capacity. The simple fact of the matter is that Sam Walton is not even an appropriate comparison. His businesses only dealt withthe finalretail solicitation ofproducts in a vastly differenteconomic environmentthan anything inSWG, and he never actually made the products his stores sold, or produced the raw materials to go into those products.
Actually Dalyn, I think they, And I, do get it. I never once saw him claim anyone an "idiot" (I think that's your word), poor business decisions do not always equate to idiot. They are just what they said, poor business. You're not quite understanding that.
I can respect a persons opinion, but yours has gone beyond that of a respectable opinion and that of a no good troll. I still have no idea why I, or other people, respond to you. It's obviously what you're looking for.
My personal opinions, those folks selling at under 3 CPU are, in fact, idiots. Just because I think they are idiots though, means little to you or anyone else except me. Cause, in 2 months, I truly will be the one still in business because they will be burned out from crafting ALL the time, Having people breathe down the backs of the necks wanting to know why they didn't get their product 3 days ago when it was promised. (Which was already a week after they made the order). And just plain tired of a grind that's showing a lot of work for little return. I'll admit, my pricing schema is not perfect, but it works for me. Do I think everyone should adopt mine? No. Do I think that the lowball retards should sell for higher? Nah, I make my profit, those lowballers won't be around for long. And what's better, for the customer that tells me "I can get it for xxlowballfigure from someone else" I tell em, "It is my best suggestion to you, to go buy it from someone else then, as much as I'd like to help you, I cannot, nor will not compete at that level, I would take a great loss". Out of the many many times I've told that to people, those same people come back 10 minutes later and buy my product at my price.
Dalyn, Stop Trolling.
Everyonelse, Ignore Dalyn. If you ignore him/her/it, he/she/it will go away. Besides that... responding just insights more trollishness.
I wasn’t specifically talking about you but the crowd in general.
Walton is a perfect comparison because he sold products fur much less than he could have, in fact he sold many products at a loss. What an idiot huh? He lost profit opportunity on millions upon millions of sales. What a total fool! His competitors actually took him to court because his prices were lower then their wholesalers prices on some items, he won that suit too.
He drove others in business out of business, They were the smart ones huh? The ones he drove out of business? They were the ones that really understood business the way you do!
You are talking specifically about vertical monopolies, we already had that discussion, as everyone has the same access that issue simply does not apply.
I am only defending anyone’s right to set their own price against those that want to price-fix. And It is true I am getting quite a chuckle watching someone that looses a business battle talk about what an idiot the winner is.
I am not claiming to be the winner, I am not the lowest price myself, just a bit lower than average seems to be doing well for me right now.
No argument you could ever make will be able to convince me that my bank account is shrinking, that I am loosing money, I’m not. I am being profitable selling for less than others. That is what good business is.
I don’t care about profit opportunities lost in the resources market, that is not my goal. My goal is to provide my customers with a good product at a very competitive price while still turning a strong profit. I am succeeding at my goal, you cannot tell me I am not.
I am by no means implying that you are losing money in your overall process. What I am saying is that by selling at such low prices, you are not realizing the full potential for income that is available to you. I am relatively new to the game (about 1.3 months) and about a week ago I finally admitted that I just wasn't making a steady source of income on many of thearchitectural goods and was running low on money (although a lot of that had to do with the fact that I was completely annoyed at the tedium of the crafting interface, which the devs have recently discussed redoing anyway btw :smileyvery-happy
. At that point, I thought about moving into a combat profession for a change,but somewhere along the line I decided to sell some of the resources on the bazaar thatI was going to use forbuilding structures. It didn't take me long to realize that I could make way more by simply selling the resources I gatherratherthan actually making them into structures. So I have simply started phasing into selling resources instead of buildings. Thus far, this has been both easier and far more profitable. And I expect to start making even more now that I have an idea for what is in demand.
Low prices on architect goods have not put me out of business, and this game isn't like real life where a company can be forced into bankruptcy. Sam Walton did put other people out of business by taking losses, but after that happened, he raised his prices, since he had no competition, and he sold huge amounts ofspecificproducts at a small markup. No one is going to win in this because even if everyone is driven away from selling architect goods, you still can't raise your prices. As soon as you do, people are going to realize that architect is acompetatively-paying field again and start back into it. Even if they dropped the skills, they could regain them in very little time. And as far asmass sellingat a small markup,I'm betting that you aren't able to make 100+ structures per day to bring in a comparable income to what you would get from mining. And if you can get your hands on that kind of material, you could just as easily resell it for even larger profits.
So what you said is.
Someone or many people (probably notme ) put you out of business selling products for a lower price then you were willing too. And I can make a good wagerthey did so while still making a profit.
Business is war, someone else won. Not everyones goal is to make the max ammount of money in the shortest possible time, that may be your goal, but it is not mine and it is not for a lot of people. There is noset goal in SWG you get to choose your own goals just like life.
The natrue of this game economoy wise is PVP business. you are saying you lost the war.
I undersand the frustratorn, I expcet someday to loose it myslef.
But I am not going to belittle the guy that beats me, and I am not going to claim that he doesnt know much about business whileI know much better. That is obviously not the case.
No they really didn't really put me out of business, nor did they even push me out of the market. I basically just moved on to greener pastures, so to speak. If I wanted to spend about anhour every day crafting, I could easily still compete with them and still make money, but the fact of the matter is that I can simply skip the crafting step and make more money for less work. The only thing that these low prices have succeeded in doing to me is cause me to me to move into amarket that iseasier andfar more lucrative, and in turn make more money. Sure, I could still compete with them, and I doubt I would have any trouble keeping afloat (although that might change for all of us if some kind of structure decay isn't implemented). Honestly, if I couldn't make more money elsewhere (like if the price of resources dropped), I probably would compete with them, and I would likely do well. And if I didn't hate the boredom of clicking throught the crafting screens, I might choose to compete anyway.
But the simple fact is that I can make evenmore money (which isthe ultimate goalof any competativebusinessman)in other markets. And being able to admit that fact and do what is best for my profits is good business. Iliked the idea of selling buildings, but I like the ideaselling resources about the same, and I can make more at it. I feel sorry for those thatwanted to make decentmoney at architect, but I'm happy selling resources, myself, and having more time to do whatever I want in the game. If anyone else's goal is to simply enjoy having a shop, then that is certainly a viable motivation, but the fact that they manage to make architecture less profitable than other fields because the are unconcerned withgaininga competativeincomedoes not make them good businessmen.
If I still want to sell architect products, I can sell them for the prices Ithink are fair(which I probably will continue to do to at least some degree), and some people will buy at those prices. And my good service and individual attentionis worth paying a little more to some people,anyway. Have you ever tried to take something back at Wal-mart or ask a question about a product? If you have, you probably know why some people (myself included)choose to go to higher-priced stores. So ultimately I haven't lost anything. I'm making more money than ever, and I'm still enjoying my shop except for the tedium of crafting.
Truthfully, I think the real reason that people are leaving the architect field has nothing to do with the small group of people who sell at such low prices. The real problems are the sheer number of people who wanted (and still want) to be architects, and the fact that our products never have to be replaced. If there was still the demand that there was when I started, those people who sold so lowwould be back-ordered for weeks (provided they didn't raise their prices), and people would pay what they had to to get buildings in a reasonable time frame. So these people haven't pushed meawayfrom architect; if anything has, it's theinnate problems of the field.The people who are remaining will be forced to sell at those prices if they expect to be a full-time architect. But with the system as it is, so manystructures will be in the game soon that they will hold almost no value, so even these low-sellers may find themselves moving on soon enough. Simple economics can tell you that as more and more of anything becomes available, deflation occurs. And with architect as it is, there is no end in sight to this deflation. The developers somehow failed to realize that in a player economy, there should not only be money sinks to counter inflation, but sinks for every single item in the game to prevent their deflation.
Another problem with architect is that it needs more diversity, anyway, considering the number of people in it and drawn to it. I would love to see the ability to go into a field for advanced furniture, houses, or installations. That would mean that we don't have over a thousand people on each server making the exact same products, and it would mean that people's buildings could have some individuality.
I don’t know how to reply, I agree with just about everything you said.
I’m not used to agreeing on this forum
The only point I differ with a little bit is about goals, I know real life businesses today that could expand and make more money, but they do not choose too. They like being a small mom and pop outfit that provides to the neighborhood customers a good value.
But that is a minor difference, I really agree with you on almost every single point.