Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Player Correspondent Opening: Bio Engineer
NancyJ
Fri May 07, 2004 2:33 am
#40
Never played AC but from what I heard it wasnt profession or clased based and they dont have any profession forums
Total posts on AC official forums: 78166
I bet they spend at least 10 minutes a day reading through that lol
Total posts on AC official forums: 78166
I bet they spend at least 10 minutes a day reading through that lol
Message Edited by NancyJ on 05-07-2004 02:37 AM
Aireheru
Fri May 07, 2004 7:37 am
#41
Hi all,
I'm not a very active poster on the boards at all, but I do read through most of the threads(especially BE ones). I think all the suggested people will make great Correspondents, I've also been reading throught the SWGBE website and I think it's great and I'm sure XpNsVe will make a good correspondent as well, so I atleast think you should submit an email to SOE. 
0smspiff0
Fri May 07, 2004 9:23 am
#42
"mostly because they were regular posters on these boards before the vacancy was announced"
Debated on replying to this - came up with a constructive way.
Do you mean frequent or regular? The two are different things. It is hard to be a lurker and have a high post count :-) All of the people have posted with a somewhat regular frequency before the vacancy was announced - just the frequency is different.
Nemthang
Fri May 07, 2004 10:17 am
#43
Nancy,
If you never played Asheron's Call then you missed out. I can't speak to why it never caught on like EQ did, but I can tell you that the overall quality of the product as well as the support for the product was so far superior to what I've experienced as a paying customer in SWG, it's not funny.
Simple example is the way the servers reboot every night here. The AC servers would run for weeks without a hiccup and then only went down for scheduled maintenance and updates. There were 1/100th as many exploits/bugs/holes in the code. There are many more specific examples I could cite.
Now I realize I may be comparingoperatingefficiencyfor Columbia, SC to New York, NY here, but maybe not. I'll tell you one thing, it is a quality product run by professionals.
Also, just so you know, Turbine aquired the product back from Microsoft earlier this year. This accounts for the low total post count. The post count prior to this was well into the millions.
Nemthang
Fri May 07, 2004 10:21 am
#44
"NancyJ
ArthurDentOnBria
Vshbaa"
You can add to that
JayceMilam
0smspiff0 (me)"
Xpnsive (sp?)
Message Edited by Nemthang on 05-07-2004 12:30 PM
Akelan
Fri May 07, 2004 11:57 am
#46
NancyJ - I am not sure where you are getting your information - Mine comes from personal experience and from friends who are current and former developers in the gaming industry, but I know of VERY few companies that rely to the extent that SOE does on a correspondent. In fact, in most cases, the developers are required to read and participate in the forums, though they may not always do so openly, and they must guard against releasing information that can tip the balance of a game or system quite quickly.
Yes, as some others have pointed out, this does require a significant amount of time. Most developers are also required or at the very least strongly encouraged to play the class or type of character they are responsible for, or in some cases as another class, to provide a peer review. The time required is well justified in the accuracy and applicability of the development effort, as a clear understanding of the issue from direct experience is an excellent guide. Can you imagine any developer that had played 2-4 hours a week or more as a BE coming up with the recent "update" to the crafting system?
SOEappears to distance the developer staff too greatly from the player base, in an effort to prevent information leaks that might allow for exploits or unbalancing advantages. It is one reason that we will never see a statement that defines what a "valid" pet is, even if they do manage to get more consistancy in the process. The level to which SOE relies on the correspondent however is quite a bit greater than nearly any other game developer in my experience, and the result, even given the best efforts of well intentioned people, shows all too clearly.
Most game publishers do indeed use a correspondent. It is the difference in using them as an adjunct to the communication channel rather than as a replacement for it, that causes the problems in the process that seem to be highly prevalent in SOE's efforts.
LLan
JayceMilam
Fri May 07, 2004 1:35 pm
#47
Interesting topic we have going on here, thought I might point out a few things. I have never played another MPOG so I can't comment on how SWG compares when it comes to DEVS. However I think that the Devs in charge of a certina profession being required to play that profession should be a no-brainer. How else will they understand the good, the bad and the ugly, as it pertains to any particular profession.
As far as the Devs needing to read our forums, also a no-brainer. I don't think they need to read everyone post though. All the significant problems we have or things we want changed are extensively discussed here. A DEV could visit for 30-60 minutes a day and easily get a good idea of community sentiment, our main concerns or any new concepts we endorse. I personally don't think that is asking too much.
Having put myself through college and now grad school in the service industry, I can say that the quality of service from SOE is not ideal. I doubt that many endeavors with this level of customer service could survive inmost industries. SWG is lucky though, because if you love Star Wars or maybe just sci-fi, and you want to play a MPOG, then this is where you have to come.
The DEVS have a very hard job though and things could be worse. Frustration over "auto-adjustments", "how is class determined", "darn dna storage!", this are frustrating for use no doubt. Try programingan on-line game with the complexity and population of SWG. Of course the difference being they get paid for their frustration .... while we pay to experience ours 
NancyJ
Sat May 08, 2004 12:30 am
#48
The developers do read the forums, but they cant read and respond to every thread.
I think the amount of dialogue the correspondants have is a great thing - it allows the developers to speond more time actually developing the game.
I think the amount of dialogue the correspondants have is a great thing - it allows the developers to speond more time actually developing the game.
grelgen
Sat May 08, 2004 2:02 pm
#49
personally, i dont want the position and from my post history you can see why.
Game Goes Live:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=801#M801
Tissue Bonuses become an issue
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=11887#M11887
we are being ignored
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=11957#M11957
new system is implemented
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=41817#M41817
and
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=42396#M42396
and then current issues only i seem to deem important
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=54870#M54870
Nearly a year of my time, wasted. But hey, i've been here since verhoffin, I guess that counts for something right?
Game Goes Live:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=801#M801
Tissue Bonuses become an issue
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=11887#M11887
we are being ignored
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=11957#M11957
new system is implemented
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=41817#M41817
and
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=42396#M42396
and then current issues only i seem to deem important
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=54870#M54870
Nearly a year of my time, wasted. But hey, i've been here since verhoffin, I guess that counts for something right?
Amana
Sat May 08, 2004 3:52 pm
#50
Wish I coulddo itbut I just got my forum account started and just began not a week ago. I have read up on the bio-engineering profession and found it quite interesting. I love the part about taking different items and combining them into a single item. Hope you guys find a good BE correspondent.
Albion_DeCrappa
Tue May 11, 2004 9:38 am
#51
However I think that the Devs in charge of a certina profession being required to play that profession should be a no-brainer.
Wrong wrong wrong!!!
Let me ask you this, who is the best editor of a written work? The writer or an unbias third party? Who finds more errors in a written work? The original writer or an unbias third party? I can sit down and write a 50 page paper, then go over it 10 times and think I have all the errors out. But, much to my suprise, when I give that paper to my g/f to read she finds things I would have never found.
In the same respect, a developer/programmer should never test or proof his own code. More problems will be found by people who are unbias toward the code and it's functionality. This is why game companies open their games to public beta testing, to find all the bugs and non-functionality in the code that the developers would have never found because of their bias toward it.
Having put myself through college and now grad school in the service industry, I can say that the quality of service from SOE is not ideal.
I am assuming that you are talking about the hospitality industry (Hotels, Restaraunts)? If so you are, you're comparing apples to oranges. Do you know that in a hotel there is usually one employee to every 2 to 3 guests on any given day? At least in a good hotel anyway. Even at a restaraunt that can seat 100 people you have at least 5 to 1 customers to employees. At SOE you are talking about 250,000 subscribers as compared to what, maybe 50 to 100 developers. That's 2500 to 1, not even close to the 3 to 1 in the hospitality business. And we're only paying $15/month as compared to the $100-$200 / night in a hotel, or $25-$35 / plate in a restaraunt. There is no comparison... It would be like a restaraunt or hotel with 20 employees tackling a 10,000 person banquet and only making $50. It's just not possible.
In my opinion corrispondants are a necessity in a system this large. I know that this is only a game, but this quote from Common Sense by Thomas Paine is relevant.
"But as the colony increases, the public concerns will increase likewise, and the distance at which the members may be separated, will render it too inconvenient for all of them to meet on every occasion as at first, when their number was small, their habitations near, and the public concerns few and trifling. This will point out the convenience of their consenting to leave the legislative part to be managed by a select number chosen from the whole body, who are supposed to have the same concerns at stake which those have who appointed them, and who will act in the same manner as the whole body would act were they present. "
So basically we need someone as correspondant who is a Bio-Engineer, and keeps the needs of all of our ideas in mind, not just their own. This means if any of these candidates above has ever flamed any BE's idea no matter how stupid or unimportant it was, they should be disqualified. Remember, any idea is a good idea to the person who came up with it. Not because it fits popular opinion or your opinion, but because everyone has the right to make their ideas public and have them heard. Criticize if you must but make sure you are criticizing the idea, and not the person making it.
Message Edited by Albion_DeCrappa on 05-11-2004 09:38 AM
JayceMilam
Tue May 11, 2004 11:57 am
#52
Gee Albion I guess I must apologize for being so stupid. I normally value other people's opinion's especially when they provide an ingtelligent and logical arguement, but you start out your post with wrong, wrong, wrong? Well I wish i was perfect like you and could so justly decide whose opinion's are right and whose are wrong. I also find it ironic that you accuse me of comparing apples to oranges when discussing customer service, yet you do the same by comparing playing a profession in SWG to writing an article for a newspaper. I never said a DEV playing BE might somehow give them insight into mistakes made in the code. I do firmly believe they might have a greater understanding of what changes need to be made in the system, i.e. pet checks, BE requiring less skill points, more or exclusive pet skins, etc. I do not see how things like this could be overlooked by a DEV playing a BE character. I never said one word about a DEV testing or proofing their own code. I don't care who tests or proofs it as long as it works.
As far as your customer service comments, I am taking about good business. The most successful companies have great customer service whether that is in the service industry, hospitality industry or the tech industry. Period. Good customer service is good business. I am not so narrow minded as to think I would get the same personal attention from SOE as I would in a restaurant, but I do expect issues affecting 1000's of their 250,000 subscribers to be addressed. The embaressment of our adv guide and FF are perfect examples. I am not asking them to show us BE's special treatment, but how about not treating us like a **edit** step-child? All i am asking is to have the same amount of attention that the pther professions have. Wait ... how aobut any attention? How about some sensible answers to our questions about the class system or when we might see some changes? I don't feel this is too much to ask for my $15 a month.
I do agree with you that we need a correspondant who is open-minded though and has not attacked anyone on the forums. We wouldn't want someone who starts out there post telling someone else they are wrong, wrong, wrong, would we?