Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Chef pricing
Message Edited by Fellstaff on 03-04-2004 12:20 AM
I am getting 75k-100k for MediumNutrition crates, can barely keep them stockedand I have people begging for more. I cannot make them as fast as meat can be harvested. The prices will remain high until people no longer want the product, which I doubt will be soon.
I had a schematic and the various parts made (local chef) to make my own Enhanced Brandy in my factories with Casks (18use). 15 crates went for 250k each within 4 days. I only advertised via my siganture in my forums and a thread. No global advertising.
Do I feel bad about charging 75-100k for a crate of Enhancers or 250k for a crate of Brandy? Nope. Iam selling out of stock.
A bio-engineer makes a product. They sell that product at a price. Its a price the engineer makes based on the resources, time involved, and overhead costs (harvesters, factories, and shop maitenance). Some may just pick the price out of the air or some other place I'd rather not think about. The point is, the price a BE chooses is their own. They decide that price and no one else.
In that light, I guess I'm confused here. This thread complains about the price a BE places on his or her goods. I sell tissues for 75K a crate. That pays for my time and my resources and allows me a profit which I roll back into my business. I know for a fact the chefs and tailors are making a profit off the products I've made.
This thread does come off as complaining by the way whether its mentioned or not for the simply fact...its posted in the BE forum. If the intent of the thread is to educate the BE about chef prices I'd ask why do I care? We make a product. We charge for that product. If you don't like the price nothing says you have to pay for it. This may sound callous but its the honest truth.
SirVimes wrote:
Fellstaff wrote:
I have seen chef's justifying high prices because they're quoting insanely high prices for BUYING resources. Every resources that goes into brandy can be harvested.. though a Chef will probably have to buy some resources because they need more lots for factories the gemstone and chemical used in casks can be of ANY quality so there's no reason to pay more than 2-3 CPU for it.
One thing about that, though...if a chf wants to run a cantina (whichis one of the goals of the chef tree) that takes up 5 lots right there. Then another for a factory...that leaves 4 lots for harvesting...
Still, the brandy is not so much the problem....brandy is not the only thing we sell. Other things include Bivoli Tempari which requires carnivore meat. Don't have a harvester for that, now, do we?
If a chef wants to run a cantina, then he puts himself in a tight situation. He's accepting the fact that he will sacrifice profits because he can't use as many harvesters, but he's also picking a role that isn't suited for the high end foods in high volume. A Chef running a cantina is a Bartender, he wants to setup a fun place where people will hang out. Not just a shop people stop by for their weekly supply of power drinks and food.. Hopefully he'll have a bartender/vendor with fun food and drinks, not high filling, high strength foods that are used for 'work'. You can't have it all, what are your reasons for choosing a cantina over 3 harvesters and a medium house? There are sacrifices that you're making all around, not just in lots, but in your factory time. Are you gonna make high power Vasarian brandy or are you going to make lighter foods to stock your bartender for the cantina patrons?
Noone can use meat as an excuse. BE's and Chef's both have to deal with it. Some people have a hard time getting it, other people have no trouble. Harvesting high quantities of Dath Carnivore is easy.. if someone is charging you too much, look for another supplier. I pulled 120k units in 12 hours (not in one sitting). Solo TKA (not master), doctor buffs, Hunting II. Others have quoted similar figures for solo harvesting. A group canpull twice that amount PER PERSON.
Jascal wrote:There is always alot of fuss about Chefs going to take up BE for their additives, guess it isnt that much more truble for BE to take up Chef aswell...So stop whining about it and go BE if you dont want to buy our products.
mass production of tissues is a very new thing for any BE...previous to publish 6 I don't think any BE ever dreamed/considered making full runs (1000 units) of tissues...let alone doing 1 or 2 of those a week.
prior to publish 6 chefs had to make some excessively time intensive subcomponents...aludium pu36's would take just as long for a full run as BSN does now.
chefs are quite used to, and capable of running huge volumes of product. those that aren't capable of this, or willing to do this quickly become PA chefs...or drop chef after placing a cantina for a player city.
basically it comes down to this:
if a BE can keep up with a single chef's need for tissues...great, 1 mil+ for that full run is quite reasonable...well 1-1.5 mil. this is assuming the BE has harvested/purchased all the needed resources, and the BSN has a value of 83+.
if the BE can't keep up with a single chef's demand...they will quickly realize that orders can and will overwhelm them in short order...which is perhaps why out of the few serious BE's left per server...maybe 1/2 are willing to consider getting into the tissue market (this number may be wrong...but I doubt there are more than 1/2 the BE's that can/will make tissues in the required amounts...I personally doubt there would be more than 2 per server that could keep up with orders for more than a few weeks).
that being said...why wouldn't BE's just pick up chef...simple answer...volume. the same thing that makes tissues so unappealing to many BE's would make chef even more unappealing to them.
as I have stated in many previous posts...if a BE can keep up...great, charge 40k a crate for BSN...its not unreasonable. if not, then not every BE...but certainly a few per server will definately have to get into supplying chefs with schematics for the tissues. brandy prices being 300k+...it will only get higher if BE's charge more for tissues (the chefs charging the higher end of the prices will simply raise their prices to compensate...they won't in all likelyhoods consider sharing profits). the less BE's that are willing/capable of supplying chefs with tissues will only further increase the demand, and subsequently the prices.
before stating that BE's could pick up chef easier than a chef could pick up BE...please consider the following:
1) how many factories does a BE have? (my personal guess would be no more than 3)
2) do you like making pets...cause you're going to need a lot of storage space for organics...so less space to save that nice DNA.
3) yes BE's have had to deal with very silly requests for pets...but only after publish 6 are BE's seeing the complaints that stock is out...when you just stocked a vendor only an hour ago (with 2 days worth of factory time).
4) the BE crafting grind can be dramatically cut down by finding a chef to help...usage xp on those nutrients are quite nice, and you only need to give a chef maybe 20k of any quality water...not too hard to find for cheap.
5) might be just me...but DNA harvesting xp doesn't seem like the huge chore its made out to be...theres risk, danger...yes lots of frustration and cursing...but certainly more interesting than hitting macro buttons for hours and hours on end.
the basic type of people that like BE are different than those that like chef. there is nothing wrong with that...not all gamers like to play the same way (or we'd all be rifleman/cm). BE's have more than just tissues...theres the pet aspect (which seems infinately more fun than mass producing tissues even with the bugs and such), slicing faction HQ terminals, and the tissues. chef has food/drink and thats it (since most foods don't even come close to being as useful as the drinks...its primarily just drinks)
and why is it the focus is always placed on the "uber" meat thats needed...I've had BSN made with super flora, and average meat...had about an 83 value...and for essentially every chef...thats more than good enough. average meat being 1600 oq+pe+fl....and thats not very uncommon...the average dath carnivore meat spawn is around this value...and it can be harvested in HUGE quantities very quickly by a small organized group (maybe 3 or 4 people...even a solo hunter can get the meat fairly quickly). and its not like there isn't more than a few holo grinders left hunting rancors for xp (they probably harvest the meat as well). flora can be used in 60 of the 80 total resources needed for BSN...thats 3x more than the meat required...so if you can get great flora (any kind of flora...theres always some kind with 2000+ oq+pe+fl somewhere...often on more than 1 planet).
I'm not sure if I'm just playing in some little bubble or what, but I have a great and successful relationship with the BE I work with. I read the Chef boards religiously, and recently the BE boards, but it still baffles me about some of the tension between these two crafting communties. I understand some points from both sides, but all in all, I shake my head and ignore the hostility that some of the people from these two professions have shown each other over pricing.
I pay my BE an average of 30k a crate of BSNs, (this is on Corbantis), so averaging around 1.2 mil per full run. He averages about 4 runs a week for me. That's almost 5 mil a week he makes. That's a decent income off of one person. I don't usually provide him with meat or resources, that's his job, just as I wouldn't ask my customers who buy my food to bring me fruits, wheat, tubers, whatever if they wanted my food and drinks. (Ok, sometimes I have, likefor Bespin Port, just because I hate Tatooine and don't plan on harvesting there. =D) He knows I charge 250k for a crate of casked Brandy made with his suppliments and never once a complaint that I'm ripping him off, because he knows I'm not, and I know I'm not.
I'm not sure if some are forgetting that Chefs don't ONLY make Brandy. My goodness, I have about 15 different cratedBE'd foods and drinks on my vendor. For most of my foods I just charge double what my Non-BE'd foods cost, with about 5-10k added on (extra factory time/water, value/demand of the higher buff, etc). This basically covers the price I spend in additives. Then again, I'm not just in the cheffing business to make a quick buck. However, I'm probably one of the most successful chefs on my server, and have beena cheffor over 6 months.
Ihave great respect for the BE I work with and value his services, talent and dependablity, very highly, as well as for most BE's. People all play differently, if a chef wants to find a BE to make a schematic for whatever price is agreed upon, and the BE is fine with it, so be it, nothing wrong with that. I've found something that works for me, I don't want to tie up my factories with runs of suppliments, some BE's might feel this way as well and want to sell their schems. Everyone has a choice about pricing and who they want to work with, it's just a matter of finding the right business relationship for your play style and that of the person/people you're working with.I don't think it always has to be rocket science or math class to get what you want or to make both parties happy.
Not to open a sore wound, but I'd just like to chime in in response to the "overcharging chef" charge being levied. Though it may be an accurate generalization, it is not true for all. My cost (including paying for the broad-spectrum from my WONDERFUL bioengineer /wave) is about 40k/crate. My current charge for my customers (and no, I seldom accept new ones so, please, no spam)is currently at 100k/crate (this is for bioenhanced, casked Vasarian brandy - and is based primarily on the cost for one to get an equivalent doctor enhancement). I feel that is a reasonable price based on my costs, and my customers seem to agree.
The concern I have with the rumors I hear of pricing is that the incredibly high costs being bandied about will drive my costs is that it will drive the prices of other enhanced foods (especially the food items which cannot get reduced cost/benefit ration due to poor stack sizes) through the roof.
Just thought I'd share,
Misterie
PBN wrote:
Not to open a sore wound, but I'd just like to chime in in response to the "overcharging chef" charge being levied. Though it may be an accurate generalization, it is not true for all. My cost (including paying for the broad-spectrum from my WONDERFUL bioengineer /wave) is about 40k/crate. My current charge for my customers (and no, I seldom accept new ones so, please, no spam)is currently at 100k/crate (this is for bioenhanced, casked Vasarian brandy - and is based primarily on the cost for one to get an equivalent doctor enhancement). I feel that is a reasonable price based on my costs, and my customers seem to agree.
The concern I have with the rumors I hear of pricing is that the incredibly high costs being bandied about will drive my costs is that it will drive the prices of other enhanced foods (especially the food items which cannot get reduced cost/benefit ration due to poor stack sizes) through the roof.
Just thought I'd share,
Misterie
Fellstaff wrote:
I have seen chef's justifying high prices because they're quoting insanely high prices for BUYING resources. Every resources that goes into brandy can be harvested.. though a Chef will probably have to buy some resources because they need more lots for factories the gemstone and chemical used in casks can be of ANY quality so there's no reason to pay more than 2-3 CPU for it.
One thing about that, though...if a chf wants to run a cantina (whichis one of the goals of the chef tree) that takes up 5 lots right there. Then another for a factory...that leaves 4 lots for harvesting...
Still, the brandy is not so much the problem....brandy is not the only thing we sell. Other things include Bivoli Tempari which requires carnivore meat. Don't have a harvester for that, now, do we?
Minimum for a crate of the most common medium BE add should be 35-40k
If you are using it to make food or large glasses your price should be 120-130k
If you are using casks 150k