Bio Engineer Archive

Message Edited by Virtuell on 10-18-2005 12:43 PM

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01011111100111001000...| Drako Orkand

00100100101011011111...| Raal/Integral 

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01101001110101101100...  

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01011101000111010110.................................U I support Pre-NGE U.

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/tiphat
/deepbow

---

lammergeier wrote:
as I mentioned, my term was nearly over. as I retire (and likely leave the game), I'd like to offer some of the reasons I made my decision.

these are reposts from other forums... they've been edited to remove NDA information, and contain only my opinions.

when you see
...
it represents a break from one post to the next. I hope that these concerns can find some resolution, but they illustrate a trend towards reliance on the CL system that I find disturbing, and they've driven me away from a game I once enjoyed.

...

I think my biggest reason for leaving is: the CL system. it is becoming more and more apparent that it is a substitute for good design, and a gate to content. the situation of crafters and entertainers is a dire one... as a BioE, neither crafter nor combatant, it has become an exercise in continuing frustration: CL60 is NOT ENOUGH to 'play' the game anymore, but it is enough to make a dedicated player try... and fail. when I play as a combat toon, I'm just another 'angry bag' at CL80. when I play as a crafter, I'm gated from all content beyond CL1. when I play as the profession I represent, I'm stuck in the middle... ineffective at my role, unable to experience all but the most basic content, and the first one to the cloner over and over again.

it certainly doesn't help that a varied and robust crafting system (BioE cloning) has been gutted and served to the community with un-fixed design flaws and outright bugs, nor that BioE tissues for tailors don't work. that I've been unable to see any issue addressed since June, and that MORE issues have croppped up with regularity and no fixes, does nothing to extend my desire to represent an ailing community.

...

this isn't a NEW problem... it's a drift from a working playstyle with some bugs (launch) to an increasingly broken and gated experience (current). the shift has been gradual, but a direct comparison between the first year of the game (indeed, of the game up to the changes instituted with the CURB) and the game now shows very dramatic changes... many for the worse.

I'm sure some of the devs and QA DO play non-combat professions... but I'm just as sure that they don't play them exclusively, nor do they play them to the depth that veteran players do regularly. give ANYONE a mission to 'play a crafter/entertainer' and they'll likely have fun for a while, if only because the experience is so different from the world-seen-by-combat-toons. crafting and entertaining ARE fun... until you've exhausted the working aspects of the professions, and are left with broken code and gated content.

CL gates content. part of this is by design (it was implemented, I hope, to keep players from soloing all content ingame). the unfortunate side-effect (which it seems is becoming more of a 'feature') is that CL overrides tactics, strategy, and player involvement. it prevents players from enjoying the game... a significant 'cost'... while offering better control of balance in the face of exploits, broken code, and power-gaming... a dubious 'benefit'.

I was strongly against the CL system during the CURB, but I gave it a try for nearly six months, hoping to see the benefits it was supposed to offer. instead, I see the game moving more and more towards a CL80-or-bust mentality. I am more strongly opposed to the CL system now than I ever was before.

...

creatures used to be more than 'angry bags'.

creatures had resists. creatures had specials. creatures had a 'ferocity rating', an assigned CL (sometimes arbitrary, to be sure, but it worked). creatures had 'personality'.

kreetles, the lowliest of critters, would aggro ANYTHING. no one ever knew why. they just did.

mantigrue screechers, a great source of endorian wooly hide, were terrible foes. I remember an ill-fated (and now famous) trip to endor that ended with a ranger HTFB filled with black-barred hunters. as the BioE in the group, I could make woundpacks... once I had the HAM to hand-sample resources to make them... we all sat in that camp for a LONG time. it was great fun, and it won't ever happen again.

'creature AI' used to be a combination of aggro, CL, ferocity, specials, ranged attack, BAF, stalker... all the information that used to be a part of mob code and /examine information. AI worked. instead of some hodge-podge of 'AI coding' stapled onto an 'angry bag' CL generic_mob_skin_xx, the AI was based on a number of identifiable factors... data that was stripped from mobs with the CURB.


and as true as it is... NO player should ever be able to say "Thank goodness I am not a (insert profession here). Man would this game be limiting." that should be a big red flag to devs and players alike.

---

---

furlock1 wrote:

Yes, with the CU came the death of the intelligence of the Animals, and the very art of hunting them. I remember Endor the deversity of AI in the animals is gone, its all the same and more and more the deversity goes away in lue of expediency.

---

A sad day for BE's i never came to this forum before, this message was linked and sent to me to read by a friend. After reading this post it sounds like you BE's had one of the best and most insightful Correspondents i have seen post anything

/tiphat lammergeier

---

lammergeier wrote:
yeah, you call it monday.

I call it friday: my current work schedule is fri-sat-sun-mon, and it's game season. we had a week off (VPI plays two thursday games in a row), but it was 'parent's weekend' at both VPI and Radford... two universities that can't play nice with each other when scheduling is concerned.

I USUALLY work thurs-fri-sat-sun. I WOULD work wed-thurs-fri-sat if I could, but that'd leave the other bartender (nominally the 'bar manager') to work tue-wed-fri-sat... so giving up monday and splitting the week works out well... except that the 'mysterious third bartender' is now enjoying my thursdays while I drag along on mondays.

why is wed-sat so desirable? it isn't the money... any bartender worth their salt wants to finish the week on a big day (and can coax a few dollars more on a slow day, no cheats or tricks). friday and saturday are big enough that we staff two bartenders (only one on any other night). leaving work after a busy saturday with total freedom (read: days off) is HAWT.

back on topic. today is friday... for me, if not for you.

I get a ride home... my car is in the shop. I ask my roomate if he needs anything from the store, and grab his keys (sidenote: he insists I drive if we go anywhere, no matter if we drive my car or his. I used to drive a taxi, and I'm a hell of a driver. posted speed limit? my MOM thinks I drive too slow. unposted? buckle up, bub. gravel? mu-ha-ha. I once was driving my IH Scout (it'll climb a tree if'n it don't knock it down first) to test the new shocks ('78 Scout: $800. pulling 'off road' vehicles (monthly payments of $500+) out of ditches and mudholes: priceless), and looked down at the speedometer as I ran full offroad in southwest Virginia... 68mph, and accelerating.). I hit the local Kroger (formerly a Harris-Teeter), which boasts a decent selection of beer and wine ('spirits' are limited to ABC stores in VA, and they close at 9pm).

to tide me over:

Ecco Domani Chianti, 750mL, 13%. we're changing the menu at work, and the Ecco D Pinot G(rigio) is a big seller. the Rufino Chianti, however, usually ends up souring before we finish a bottle. I'm halfway through the bottle (I've been 'savoring' it with a critical eye), and I think it'll do nicely.

Takara's Nigori Sake (two of them), 375mL, 15%. unfiltered, milky white. sweet like candy. we carry this, and it's a fantastic cold sake. the Ginjo is superior (dry, with a silky finish) when paired with food (read: sushi), but as a solo act... Nigori 4 teh win..

Hakutsuru "Japanese Excellent" Sake, 720mL, 16.5%. the claim to excellence isn't a boast... this is a great classic sake (serve warm to room temperature). it's kinda vanilla in a Ben-and-Jerry's world (sake variety is rivaling the tequila and vodka booms), but sake has been brewed and enjoyed like this for about two millenia... ain't nothing wrong with that (btw... 'nigori' sake is an antiquated style, only finding favor with the 'new sake crowd' in recent years... nigori is 'how samurai drank it' sake, I'm told).

Unibroue's "Terrible", 750mL, 10.5%. from the French-Canadiens that brought us 'La Fin du Monde', 'Le Blanche de Chambly', 'Raftman', 'Eu Maudite', 'Trois Pistoles', and other wonderful *gasp* BEERS (most of which hover around 10% alcohol), we have this year's offering of a 'dark beer on lees'... apparently that's beer-speak for 'delicious'. I haven't tried it yet, but I have NEVER had a bad beer from them. if this breaks the trend... I'll be hollering from the hills. more likely, I'll be praising it come morning.

beans and rice. peasant food is delicious, and beans and rice are damn hard to beat as a staple (also... don't line up a few bottles without thinking of solid food... that's just trouble brewing).

back to the apartment. my roomate, who apparently didn't get the memo stating that Ragnarok Online isn't worth playing anymore (the only other MMORPG I ever played extensively)... or is as stubborn as I am with SWG... was still on my computer. time passes.

I log in to the SWG forums. I snipe at CL issues. I read the farewells.

I bring up National Geographic's Live WildCam at Pete's Pond on the other machine. I stumbled across this last night... it's nifty. apparently some folks at VPI's 'small business technology shelter' got $15k and three weeks to put it together. it ain't perfect... but while writing this, I got to see an elephant live on camera. peak viewing hours coincide with my sleeplessness. I find myself harboring a growing desire to visit botswana and sit in a hammock with a camera... or something.

I pre-order ToOW on one account... if I can't use the skiff, I'm sure someone else can. I laugh at the fact that my alt-account (randolphcarter) got beta access just before the beta was closed.

I write this. I finish the bottle of chianti. I close the "WildCam" and boot up SWG.

I finish writing this. I accept the EULA.

here comes the weekend. strap yourselves in.

EDIT: for the clicky.

Message Edited by lammergeier on 10-18-2005 02:28 AM

---

After a self imposed exile into troll-only mode, I feel compelled to say thank you to you Lam. I must say you have been a wonderul source of information as well as a truely heart spoken one. A lack of your insights and indepth explainations will become a void in this here forum. I can only hope that the next person to fill the role will also be able to fill your shoes...

I'm sure you will be missed here as well as in the cloner.

fair well

This is just sad. The CU has dumbed down the animal AI in this game. It was always cool going up the hunting tree of scout and learnign something new about EVERY animal in game. I never played BE but my best pal has been one since launch. I regret that I almost never see him anymore. I myself am now a jedi. I loved many scout related professions. Especially ranger. BE always seemed a cool prof to be but i never had the resources for it.

I can only hope that your time in game was fun for the most part. May the Force be with you.

/sabersalute

/sigh... another fine correspondent bites the dust.

Lamm, I shareyour disdain for the level-based damage-multiplier system. Over the past year and a half, I have seen a number of longtime, dedicated veteran players bail out of SWG for a number of reasons. Some were disgusted by the never-ending onslaught of game-breaking bugs. Others bailed over their dislike of the Combat Upgrade's core mechanics.

For my part, if I quit this game, it will be for the same reason you are leaving: The level-based damage-multiplier system and it's effect on our in-game environment.

As a player who has only played combat professions (Bounty Hunter/Creature Handler, BH/Combat Medic, and Jedi Padawan), I look at the level-based modifiers from a different perspective: that ofmy CL-80 toons. Basically, the level-based system has destroyed the play value of perhaps 95% of the in-game content of SWG's planets for me and any other high-level toon. I can roam vast stretches of all the planets and come across not a single combat challenge. Compared to the vast playground the game used to be prior to the CU, I consider this state of affairs an absolute travesty.

In a nutshell, the devs have painted themselves into a corner once again --and this time, the mess is far worse than the issues that affected the HAM system and it's Mind-Bar-as-the-target-of-choice issue. With combat effectiveness inextricably linked to Combat Level, these devs leave themselves with the impossible situation of either building the MObs in their world around the main combat professions in order to give them a challenge while shutting non-combatants out of their worlds, or else populating their worlds with the sort of weak creatures that would fit the limited capabilities of the non-combat professions, thereby depriving the combat people of challenge. The current situation reflects the devs' inability to find a happy medium. Which is understandable, considering that there is no happy medium here.Not as long as the level-based damage-multiplier system remains in place.

What Iakimo just said.

Absolutely, devastatingly on target.

The CL system MUST GO!

And take the "hate" system with it.

---

lammergeier wrote:
as I mentioned, my term was nearly over. as I retire (and likely leave the game), I'd like to offer some of the reasons I made my decision.

these are reposts from other forums... they've been edited to remove NDA information, and contain only my opinions.

when you see
...
it represents a break from one post to the next. I hope that these concerns can find some resolution, but they illustrate a trend towards reliance on the CL system that I find disturbing, and they've driven me away from a game I once enjoyed.

...

I think my biggest reason for leaving is: the CL system. it is becoming more and more apparent that it is a substitute for good design, and a gate to content. the situation of crafters and entertainers is a dire one... as a BioE, neither crafter nor combatant, it has become an exercise in continuing frustration: CL60 is NOT ENOUGH to 'play' the game anymore, but it is enough to make a dedicated player try... and fail. when I play as a combat toon, I'm just another 'angry bag' at CL80. when I play as a crafter, I'm gated from all content beyond CL1. when I play as the profession I represent, I'm stuck in the middle... ineffective at my role, unable to experience all but the most basic content, and the first one to the cloner over and over again.

it certainly doesn't help that a varied and robust crafting system (BioE cloning) has been gutted and served to the community with un-fixed design flaws and outright bugs, nor that BioE tissues for tailors don't work. that I've been unable to see any issue addressed since June, and that MORE issues have croppped up with regularity and no fixes, does nothing to extend my desire to represent an ailing community.

...

this isn't a NEW problem... it's a drift from a working playstyle with some bugs (launch) to an increasingly broken and gated experience (current). the shift has been gradual, but a direct comparison between the first year of the game (indeed, of the game up to the changes instituted with the CURB) and the game now shows very dramatic changes... many for the worse.

I'm sure some of the devs and QA DO play non-combat professions... but I'm just as sure that they don't play them exclusively, nor do they play them to the depth that veteran players do regularly. give ANYONE a mission to 'play a crafter/entertainer' and they'll likely have fun for a while, if only because the experience is so different from the world-seen-by-combat-toons. crafting and entertaining ARE fun... until you've exhausted the working aspects of the professions, and are left with broken code and gated content.

CL gates content. part of this is by design (it was implemented, I hope, to keep players from soloing all content ingame). the unfortunate side-effect (which it seems is becoming more of a 'feature') is that CL overrides tactics, strategy, and player involvement. it prevents players from enjoying the game... a significant 'cost'... while offering better control of balance in the face of exploits, broken code, and power-gaming... a dubious 'benefit'.

I was strongly against the CL system during the CURB, but I gave it a try for nearly six months, hoping to see the benefits it was supposed to offer. instead, I see the game moving more and more towards a CL80-or-bust mentality. I am more strongly opposed to the CL system now than I ever was before.

...

creatures used to be more than 'angry bags'.

creatures had resists. creatures had specials. creatures had a 'ferocity rating', an assigned CL (sometimes arbitrary, to be sure, but it worked). creatures had 'personality'.

kreetles, the lowliest of critters, would aggro ANYTHING. no one ever knew why. they just did.

mantigrue screechers, a great source of endorian wooly hide, were terrible foes. I remember an ill-fated (and now famous) trip to endor that ended with a ranger HTFB filled with black-barred hunters. as the BioE in the group, I could make woundpacks... once I had the HAM to hand-sample resources to make them... we all sat in that camp for a LONG time. it was great fun, and it won't ever happen again.

'creature AI' used to be a combination of aggro, CL, ferocity, specials, ranged attack, BAF, stalker... all the information that used to be a part of mob code and /examine information. AI worked. instead of some hodge-podge of 'AI coding' stapled onto an 'angry bag' CL generic_mob_skin_xx, the AI was based on a number of identifiable factors... data that was stripped from mobs with the CURB.


and as true as it is... NO player should ever be able to say "Thank goodness I am not a (insert profession here). Man would this game be limiting." that should be a big red flag to devs and players alike.

---

/maskscent

sneak up on Lammergeier /sampleDNA

"You successfully collect a High Quality DNA sample from Lammergeier"

rinse and repeat Mwuhahahahaha!!

"Hey Gram nice pet but why does it stumble around all the time?"

"Oh that's because I made it with alchohol laced Lammergeier DNA! Watch this, it breathes fire too!!!"

"HOLY CRAP!!!"

LOL, g'luck Lamm. Your work as BE corr has been much appreciated. Take care.