Bio Engineer Archive

Well I'm not too sure EXACTLY where MrHawat is coming from as I quickly lose interest inpoorly composedposts. That not intended as a flame MrHawat but I tend to insist that when I read a post the author does the work as far as getting his point across to me, the reader, rather then the reader putting in the work of figuring out what the hell the author is trying to say

Having said that, the following is somewhat alarming to me... There is a thread going around that a MBE posted with a screenie of his BE CL70 Kimo

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http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=setandget&tp=41710&poll_id=0&category_id=19&warned=y

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Anyhow, take away the armor and about 6k ham and it isnt much different then what a level 10 pet can be made into...

Granted armor and 6k ham isnt something to balk at **but** if you think about it, why go MCH when you can have some uber level 10 pet and master something like...ohhh...lets say TKA and then ask yourself, "is going MCH for 6k ham and armor worth it when I can pick up TKA and a CL10 pet and CL10 droid **KICK** more a$$ and use less skill points???"

As a MBE this is alarming to me as the less CH out there the LESS customers I have for my Pet Creations and, my bread and butter, Pet Stims...

That leaves me catering to Taylors and Chefs making mundane factory runs... blah IMHO.

Although I dont know if this is way off base when it comes to your post MrHawat as, like I said, I lost interest reading it.

Other then you being a source for me to sell a pet to, why do I care if you drop CH? And even then, I make more money off nonCH pets then I do bigguns. And uhh if you don't want to train pets for people, don't. That has nothing to do with BEs.

Actually, now that I've started making 400 damage lvl 35s instead of 200, I've noticed pets can do a helluva a lot of damage. And that 530 on the kimo is defintely much nicer than 50 or 75 on a non-ch pet (but worse than 2 lvl 35s with 400 dmg, or 3 lvl 23s with 330 dmg, hehe).

Of course, I don't pvp so I don't see how bad pet damage is vs. players.

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Kova wrote:

it may not be the most clearly written post but the basic point is quite clear.

"people are abandoning creature handler as a combat class due tolongtime bugs and ineffectiveness at pvp making the class inferior to most of the regular combat classes"

pretty sad the shortsighted responses so far in the thread. now that bioengineers have the advantage in the pet market there is no regard for the class that is designed to use them? think things through for half a moment - the market gains were at the expense of the wild pet market. that in itself leaves the combat role as the major if not sole purposeof the class so any serious issue with the use of pets hamstrings it completely. half of the bioengineer skill trees are solely devoted to the making of pets so i would think thereshould be a little more concern about the intended users.

some of those responding should reaelly invest the time they are spending on this self-aggrandizing posturing learning a little more about the game

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It was stated in the dev notes long ago that creature handlers were never intended to be a stand alone combat class. A creature handler using a BE'd pet can take down destroy missions in a very short time which puts a lot of money in their pockets. You then get a resource to sell as well. Why would you leave such a lucrative profession?

Before the big clone fix I sold no animals to creature handlers. Now I have a semi-working system that allows me to market a tool very useful to creature handlers. You don't hear bio-engineers complaining about it. What would you have me do? Stop making animals? Make crappy animals so you can find better free pets in the wild like it was before? I think you're the one a little short sighted here. You have a supplier that can provide you a very nice product and you complain about it. That alone boggles my mind.

By far my number one customer is....the tailors.

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Spazzers wrote:

It was stated in the dev notes long ago that creature handlers were never intended to be a stand alone combat class. A creature handler using a BE'd pet can take down destroy missions in a very short time which puts a lot of money in their pockets. You then get a resource to sell as well. Why would you leave such a lucrative profession?

Before the big clone fix I sold no animals to creature handlers. Now I have a semi-working system that allows me to market a tool very useful to creature handlers. You don't hear bio-engineers complaining about it. What would you have me do? Stop making animals? Make crappy animals so you can find better free pets in the wild like it was before? I think you're the one a little short sighted here. You have a supplier that can provide you a very nice product and you complain about it. That alone boggles my mind.

By far my number one customer is....the tailors.

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Same here, my number one customer these days have been tailors. There's one thing that's being left out here, and that's simply how BEs perceive how they are being treated by their customers. My shift to prioritizing tailors over CHs is largely because from my experience, tailors tend to be much more pleasant to deal with. Being crafters themselves, they understand the needs of a BE. Obtaining resources, the time putting together even a single item can be, etc. Here's an example:

CH: Hey!

BE: Yes?

CH: Can you make me {request for "uber" pet}

BE: Sure, I'll need at least a week. I'll let you know when it's ready.

CH: I need it now, I pay a lot, you know!

BE: {Tries to explain what the pet making process for a good pet entails and why they cannot be crafted "while you wait"}

CH: YOU SUCK!

BE: {Sighs and adds yet another person on his ignore list}

You can also substitute non-CH customers for CHs in the above example. Here's an example with tailors:

Tailor: Hi hun! Can I order 5-10 crates of Active Biosensors, +13 or higher in effectiveness?

BE: Sure, shouldn't be a problem. Might need about a week, I need to gather up a little more insect and wild meat to fill an order that large.

Tailor: Np darling, I know how it can be trying to get all the resources you need. Just let me know when it's ready. : )

BE: Thanks, I'll get back to you soon!

What's the big difference? It's the way the BE is TREATED. Evenin the pet example above, if the CH/non-CH buyer inserted "huns" and "darlings" in his lines above, there would still be a lack of...sincerity. (Imagine "YOU SUCK! hun" )

I am not saying that pet buyers, CH or non-CH, lack sincerity in general. I have a lot of friends and customers that use pets and they certainly don't fall into this category. But part of the reason a lot of BEs are 1) perceived as arrogant by the more "militant" CHs that post on the boards,2) haltingthe practiceof custom/special orders for pets, preferring to just stock their vendors and leaving it up to "first come, first serve" basis, and 3) moving toward the tissue industry, is largely from the treatment we've been getting from customers. I wouldn't say it's the great majority of customers, but there is an awful lot. I'm sure the vast majority of BEs on this board will agree with this. It doesn't make things any better when the more vocal of the CHs come to the BE boards and post threads of "Why BEs are bad salesman," "Are all BEs so flaky," or "BEs should be nerfed!" I realize that there are BEs that troll on the CH boards themselves, and I disagree with this practice. However, don't troll on a BE profession board and try to make yourself seem the victim when you're flamed by the BE community. That's why I don't bother criticizing CHs on the CH boards. Honestly, who there is going to listen to you? That's also why I like dealing with tailors more than most pet users, they seem genuinely more appreciative of your efforts.

I'm not saying you have to suck up to the BEs, but some courtesy when dealing with us will go a long way.

(And while I'm on the subject, I prefer a "hello," or a simple "hi," and cannot stand "hey!" when initiating contact with me, especially when you're a complete stranger to me. That and calling me "dude" or "man" will make negotiations harder with me. )

Message Edited by Xikago on 02-20-2004 11:29 AM

Message Edited by Xikago on 02-20-2004 11:30 AM

Message Edited by Xikago on 02-20-2004 11:32 AM

Message Edited by Xikago on 02-24-2004 05:53 PM

I think alot of you are missing the point of his original post. Everyone reads something different. What I took from his comment was that he was recomending that Bio Engineers take up Creature Handler. Since CH's are a large core of a BE's business, it makes sense to be familiar with how pets work in addition to how to make them. Knowing your own product well, will help your business. I think this actually applies to all crafting professions and not just BE. An armersmith should know and understand combat and its use. A weaponsmith should have similar knowledge about his product. When I walk into an electronics or computer store in real life, I'm much more likely to buy from and come back to a store where the reps have a lot of knowledge and can help me out and answer questions.

Anyways, I dont think the dude was trying to lecture. It just came across that way.

That's just the thing, MANY BEs are already CHs. The BE/CH combination is not exactly a rarity. I'ma CH myself, and I use my own pets. I also use wild pets. I understand what it is to be a CH. Frankly, while some of the "nerfs" were annoying to me, I adjusted and went along playing. If you read some of the following posts, this was stated by at least a couple others also. The original post was a useless recommendation because many BEs already understand the CH class from their own personal experience. We certainly didn't need anyone who doesn't even know the basics of the BE profession to tell us that we should be CHs so we can be our own market.