Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: CL9 pet with Armor !!!
Joker9125 wrote:I personally want bannings for people who make and or sell these. No one can defend non-ch ub3r pets any longer. Look at this!!!!! How the bloody #3!! can you say this is anywhere close to balanced!!!!
They're not. Yet the devs do nothing. They were created with a fair crafting system without exploits. I've given up fighting against these now. The devs don't care and in the end it's only a game.
Joker9125 wrote:I personally want bannings for people who make and or sell these. No one can defend non-ch ub3r pets any longer. Look at this!!!!! How the bloody #3!! can you say this is anywhere close to balanced!!!!
second: a CL9 with AR1 and full vulns is completely balanced. I'd have to see if it passed validity checks first, then I'd wonder if it suffered ADDITIONAL damage vs AP1+ weapons to really see how the AP/AR system works (or doesn't) in extreme cases like this.
EXPERIMENTAL DATA LIKE THIS ALLOWS US TO SEE THE DEFICIENCIES IN THE EXISTING CODE.
until we can take results like this to the devs/QA, we won't get a change in the code. the spirit, the effort, and the results of this testing have all (to my eye) been done in a TESTING fashion, and therefore are beyond reproach.
would we fault an armorsmith for creating ANY armor with AR1 and full resists? no. we'd ask for combat spam to see how the AP/AR system works with extreme math.
I'll admit to my own tinkering with the BioE crafting code, documented elsewhere, which allowed for the creation of AR2 clones... an entirely different problem, and one apparently pruned by the validity checks.
the fact remains: BioE crafting is NOT working as intended. the code has problems.
addressing these problems SPECIFICALLY, and not simply flaming the experiment, is the only reasonable method I see of getting a fix... which is less viable as a 'hotfix' than a revamp of bad code.
we KNOW there are problems. fully disclosing the nature and extent of these problems is the only route I see to a change.
I think that more emphasis should be placed on the CL1 pet (which breaks 'known' values and ideas of CL) than has been placed on CLx being unbalanced.
it's all data, and it's all hard-won and profitless. I wish I could offer these numbers and such from TC, but sometimes crazy ideas like this that break the system don't occur to me. when they do, I do my best to wreck a system I consider 'less than ideal'.
got a problem with CL9 AR1 vuln to all? complain to the code. don't complain to the crafter that highlights this problem.
Kelderek wrote:
The strange thing about this is the G2 pet coming out at CL1, I think it would end up lower if it could.
lammergeier wrote:
first off, five stars. that kind of work, in a nonpolitical and experimental sense, is to be rewarded. the low stars you've garnered are nonsense.
Joker9125 wrote:
I personally want bannings for people who make and or sell these. No one can defend non-ch ub3r pets any longer. Look at this!!!!! How the bloody #3!! can you say this is anywhere close to balanced!!!!
second: a CL9 with AR1 and full vulns is completely balanced. I'd have to see if it passed validity checks first, then I'd wonder if it suffered ADDITIONAL damage vs AP1+ weapons to really see how the AP/AR system works (or doesn't) in extreme cases like this.
If im not mistaken the AR would cancle out the AP. An AP1 weapon would get a damage bonus against a 60% AR0 creature. And jsut so ya know no creature has AP1 so these things make even better critter tanks.
EXPERIMENTAL DATA LIKE THIS ALLOWS US TO SEE THE DEFICIENCIES IN THE EXISTING CODE.
I understand that. But this should be getting a nice /bug as well as a fourm post.
until we can take results like this to the devs/QA, we won't get a change in the code. the spirit, the effort, and the results of this testing have all (to my eye) been done in a TESTING fashion, and therefore are beyond reproach.
I dont mind the tests, however I DO mind these things hitting the general market for sale.
would we fault an armorsmith for creating ANY armor with AR1 and full resists? no. we'd ask for combat spam to see how the AP/AR system works with extreme math.
Why would we do that when there is already extensive data on that already.
I'll admit to my own tinkering with the BioE crafting code, documented elsewhere, which allowed for the creation of AR2 clones... an entirely different problem, and one apparently pruned by the validity checks.
If AR2 was possible in pratice then these things wouldnt bother me as ive said time and again.
the fact remains: BioE crafting is NOT working as intended. the code has problems.
/agree
addressing these problems SPECIFICALLY, and not simply flaming the experiment, is the only reasonable method I see of getting a fix... which is less viable as a 'hotfix' than a revamp of bad code.
Im sorry but this really crosses the line for me. The only difference between these and those 40K ham swoops is that the devs havent offically stated they are an exploit
we KNOW there are problems. fully disclosing the nature and extent of these problems is the only route I see to a change.
/agree.......... but now people know its possible and will find a way to make these on there own. Then they will hit the market.
I think that more emphasis should be placed on the CL1 pet (which breaks 'known' values and ideas of CL) than has been placed on CLx being unbalanced.
These things are rare, require CH to use, and can no longer be made so they are not as much of an issue
it's all data, and it's all hard-won and profitless. I wish I could offer these numbers and such from TC, but sometimes crazy ideas like this that break the system don't occur to me. when they do, I do my best to wreck a system I consider 'less than ideal'.
got a problem with CL9 AR1 vuln to all? complain to the code. don't complain to the crafter that highlights this problem.
No I have a problem with a CL10 AR1 20% kinetic. And sure just blame the code not the player............Just like Jedi stacking 50+ crystals in there sabers, multiple sliced weapons,40K condition swoops, endor 0,0, force meditate, jedi breaking tracking droids, and people looting NPC weapons with 2k/5k min/max damage. Saying you should blame the system and not the player dosent fly........at all. A pretty sure fire way to know if your exploiting is if what your doing requires a very specific set of circumstances to recreate. The problem with applying this to BE pet crafting is that everything thing yall do requires a very specific set of circumstances to do. So its very hard to tell if something is actually using a bug in the system or not.
So its an academic curiosity, to be sure, but its not going to generate a new rash of NonCH uber pets on the market.
40% kin vuln rest, and shouldnt be much more than CL9 since BW is 5 CLs under VD and the VD VD HP HP HP CL10 recipe is what i started with there.
Zadokk wrote:
Can we get the devs to fix this now?
Although I believe that the standard uber cl10 recipes don't do much to destroy teh already destroyed CH profession, and see this as a curiosity pet rather than an economically/combat viable pet...this is too far for a < cl10. I would suggest that Arthur notifies the devs of this ASAP to get feedback...hopefully one of them will think 'god damn thats not supposed to happen'.
I think that the people who 1*d this guy are fools. If he didn't post here, he could have worked on a viable formula for sale, started selling these pets for ridiculous sums, and made a fortune before it became public knowledge. The fact that he posted his results here indicates it is research, so 1*ing for pushing the boundaries to show that something is possible when it shouldn't be is really just shooting yourself in the foot. All you succeed in doing is stopping people from posting. People will still try to push the limits, it's human nature, just it will never be fixed if the devs don't know about it...
I'm just wondering if this is more of an isolated, specific case where buggy DNA combines to produce an effect that cant be adapted to other formulae, the way MH MH recipes are for the more "traditional" uber pets.
If its just a case of buggy DNA, its not as alarming as it would be if it were inherent in the system. More testing is definitely needed, at any rate.
I would be happy to divulge the whole recipe for this to our BE correspondent if you think it would help the cause to pass along that info directly to the Devs. He could also try it himself and verify my work. I will not, however, post it openly here since I don't think something like this should be mass produced by BEs everywhere. I might sell this one "anomaly" for big bucks since I'm poor and need the cash (look at my post count, I haven't been a BE for very long, it's slow to get a foothold in the market) -- one person out there can have a unique, one-of-a-kind pet and they can brag about it to their friends all day all they want -- it's still only one person on one server who will have it, so I'm not too worried about any after affects of it.
I'm hoping the devs see all this, and I hope Arthur is bringing it too their attention through whatever special access he has. And again, I'd be happy to pass along the recipe if it would help the Devs nail down the screwy code.