Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Special 2 Psychology, or Mental?
Head... starting... to... hurt...
Cursor... hovering... over... Surrender Skill... button...
Seriously, this cloning system is driving me nuts. These clones I made last weekend, every single Aggression Special 1 carried over into the clone. Special 2 seemed to jump around all over the place. I could never consistently place it at Mental, Psychology or Aggression. (Meaning whileit was obvious which slot it came from, I wouldn't figure out why it got there.)
Yes, I read it. No offense, but that's what made my head start to hurt. 
Oh, lol 
Is it too confusing? Should I explain it more?
It basically works just like figuring out the resists. I do believe this to be the formula from my personal experiences, if you wanted I could post some real numbers...
It's not a matter of confusion, it's a matter of my not wanting to run formulas to play a game.
I enjoyed BE before the patch, even though the pre-patch cloning system was lame. After the patch, it became work. I'm the only BE left in my guild -- the others left after the patch. Once I reach MCH and make myself a few gnarly clones, I'm dumping the cloning and sampling trees altogether. I'll keep tissues and experimentation, to help my brother (who's training Tailor).
SonGouki wrote:
Actually, I believe thatboth Specials are tied to the Aggression slot, using itsweightsof 17 / 16 / 8.5 / 16.5 / 42.
This means that the priority on slots for Specials, from highest to lowest, is Aggression, Physique, Psychology, Prowess, then Mental. However, the weight is very heavy on Aggression, then Physique/PsychologyProwess are all about even in weight (leading to confusions on which carries more weight).
Also remember when filling slots thatspecials labelled as "-" have the same effect as putting a regular special in that slot, counting towards which special is used in the final template. Specials labelled as "Unknown" are okay though and don't count toward the final special attack.
Actually, we can probably make some kind of formula using this knowledge to reliably determine the special attacks that carry through. My first thought would be something like this:
- Each Named Special would get a letter multiplied by 100, ie. Knockdown = 100a (note that one hundred is just used to shift the decimals to make the math more obvious, it doesn't actually have to be there)
- Each Unkown Special would be a zero
- Each "-" Special would get also get a letter multiplied by 100 (I choose "x" for simplicty)
- The final value must be over a certain number to get the special to "stick" (perhaps >=17?).
Final Special Attack = Physique Special * 0.17 + Prowess Special * 0.16 + Mental Special * 0.085 + Psychological Special* 0.165 + Aggression Special * 0.42
Example 1:
Unkown (0), Unkown (0), Unkown (0), Unknown (0), Knockdown (100a)
= 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + (100a * 0.42)
= 42a
Therefore Knockdown is the special
Example 2:
Dizzy (100b), Unknown (0), Unknown (0), Unknown (0), Knockdown (100a)
= (100b * 0.17) + 0 + 0 + 0 + (100a * 0.42)
= 17b + 42a
Therefore 42a > 17b so Knockdown is the special
Example 3:
Dizzy (100b), Dizzy (100b), Unknown (0), Dizzy (100b), Knockdown (100a)
= (100b * 0.17) + (100b * 0.16) + 0 + (100b * 0.165) + (100a * 0.42)
= 17b + 16b + 0 + 16.5b + 42a
= 49.5b + 42a
Therefore 49.5b > 42a so Dizzy is the special
Example 4:
Unknown (0), Dizzy (100b), Unknown (0), Unknown (0), Unknown (0)
= 0 + (100b * 0.16) + 0 + 0 + 0
= 16b
Therefore16b < 17 (base)sothere is NOspecial
Example 5:
Dizzy (100b), Dizzy (100b),"-" Special(100x), Dizzy (100b), "-" Special(100x)
= (100b * 0.17) + (100b * 0.16) +(100x * 0.085)+ (100b * 0.165) + (100x * 0.42)
= 17b + 16b +8.5x + 16.5b + 42x
= 49.5b + 50.5x
Therefore50.5x > 49.5bsothereis NOspecial
So that's my theory on it, thoughts anybody?
Message Edited by SonGouki on 02-09-2004 08:10 PM
This is worth checking out think - once I get a chance I am going to try plugging in my stored data and see how this works out. Might take a day or so because of other things, but will post back what I find.
SonGouki, I think you may be on the right track but I'd think the there is something else going on as well.
From my lab notes. 5 sample from the same 2nd generation creature with Blinding special 1 and stunning special2. Physique, prowess and mental all very high quality samples. psychology a high quality sample and aggression an above average sample. The resulting creature had blinding attack in special 1 but --- in special 2.
Also curious about special 1. I have at least on exampe of 4 high/very highquality dune banthas (--/Stunning) combined with 1 high quality dragonet (Dizzy/---) in agression which combined to give me (Dizzy/Stunning).This seems to contradict the theory is you assumethat special 1 works in a similiar fashion to special 2.
Just to clear this up. The reason this combined is pretty much a sure bet is because of Poison Spray. Poison Spray is not allowed in BE'd pets just like Force Attacks and Area Attacks. So this leave a slot open for the Disease to come through. The Strong Poison and the Dizzy is the only gamble.
Windsplitter wrote:
you can still cross combine creatures to get the special you want from either of them
i found that with Bark Mite Borrower Queen (Dizzy Strike Strong Disease)and Horned Voritor (Strong Poison Poison Spray)
Placed in this order:
BMBQ BMBQ
BMBQ HV
HV
Both strong disease and poison came through. Test was conduted 3 times and was consistent throughout
En-Sabah-Nur wrote:
Just to clear this up. The reason this combined is pretty much a sure bet is because of Poison Spray. Poison Spray is not allowed in BE'd pets just like Force Attacks and Area Attacks. So this leave a slot open for the Disease to come through. The Strong Poison and the Dizzy is the only gamble.
Yup, the quality of the DNA i find determines if DIzzy or poison comes through. when i use VHQ samples, i always get both strong poison and disease.
Im also starting to wonder if Fierceness has anything to do with determining the preceedence of a special. Why do i say this? im just guessing here but everytime i put a MR dna into physique, dizzy always comes through for the 2nd special dispite what i have in aggression or psy
Mirrl,
Yeah, I'm, not sure if the selection ofSpecial 1 has any adverse effects on what determines Special 2 (or vice versa).
As for your examples:
From my lab notes. 5 sample from the same 2nd generation creature with Blinding special 1 and stunning special2. Physique, prowess and mental all very high quality samples. psychology a high quality sample and aggression an above average sample. The resulting creature had blinding attack in special 1 but --- in special 2.
What you're saying is that you had Blinding for Special 1 and Stunning in Special 2 for all samples and the final template came out with only Blinding in Special 1? Is your reference to "---" an unknown special or the void special?
If it is in all 5 slots and it's the void special then I'm wondering if the void special may have a more deterimental effect on the specials in other slots (similar to the -99 for vulnerabilities when calculating resists).
I was also thinking that perhaps Special 1 has more weight overall, or maybe even once one special is assigned the otherhas to qualify over a higher base value(with either Special 1being considered first, or the special with the most "weight" is).
Also curious about special 1. I have at least on exampe of 4 high/very highquality dune banthas (--/Stunning) combined with 1 high quality dragonet (Dizzy/---) in agression which combined to give me (Dizzy/Stunning).This seems to contradict the theory is you assumethat special 1 works in a similiar fashion to special 2.
So you're saying here is the slots forSpecial 1 were "---", "---", "---", "---", Dizzy and the slots for Special 2 were Stunning, Stunning, Stunning, Stunning, "---"?
Well, again, it depends on whether "---" refers to unknown specials or void specials. If it's unknowns, then it sounds right. If it's void specials though,then according to my formula Stunning is correct for passing through, but Dizzy should not of. However, this may be similiar to the above, where Special 1 got more weight... I don't know tho.
Obviously some more investigation is needed, but I think this is pretty close to what it is. Perhaps if people could supply more data supporting and contradicting this we could nail the actual formula down. I'm also curious to see if the quality of the samples has anything to do with it as well.
One more thing I forgot to mention before is that illegal specials (Open Wounds, Poison Spray, etc) are supposedly counted as unknown specials (0).
Hi SonGouki,
I'd like to preference this with both a thank you for working on this and a comment that your algorithm seems to check out very well for special 2 for almost ALL of the experiments in my lab book.
For my 5 identical sample case the resulting template just said "---" for the special which I believe is the void special. So somehow despite having stunning attack in the special 2 slot for all 5 samples I somehow lost the special attack 2. I don't know if this a some form of failure on the combine orsome facet of it being a multi generational creature but I thought I'd point it out as a possible special case which doesn't quite fit.
For the second example the DNA donors were Dune Banthas and a Dragonet. www.swgcreatures.com seems to agree with my lab notes which is that Dune Banthas have no special 1 and Dragonets have no special 2. I'm assuming that no special is your void case. The special 2 results (stun/stun/stun/stun/--- = stun) were as predicted by your formula. However the special 1 results (--/--/--/--/dizzy=dizzy) which seems very much not like the expected result.