Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Bioengineer State of the Profession
Scorus wrote:
Good list.
The sheer number of CHs and the fact that so many BEs are also CHs negates the possibility of CHs having to get their pets from BEs. It makes complete sense, Pistoleers don't have the ability to make their own pistols; Swordsmen don't have the ability to make their own swords; why do CHs have the ability to make their own pets? They should have given BE the ability to tame wild animals in addition to cloning, and in lieu of the tissue line, and given CH the ability to train and use them. But they didn't and it is too late for that kind of beta level work now.
Yes and no. You're really looking at a different concept here. Pistoleers, Swordsmen and the other combat professions can theoretically go out and find their own swords. That's a closer comparison to what a CH can do. I have it nice, I do both, but on different characters. I believe that a BE should be able to make an imporoved version of a creature, or at least be able to do some sort of "Genetic Therapy" on a creature to improve certain stats. What always bothers me about CH pets compared to BE ones is the disparity in the number of modifiers.
Creature Handler pets are Creature Handler pets. Making a Creature Handler not able to tame a wild creature negates the one main purpose of the class. Even the best CH uses their pets as a suppliment to combat, not the main focus. ABio-Engineer should be able to make them something nicer. Or faster, or meaner. There should be a risk reward based on these. IE, a chance that your nice creature makes a crappy one.
As for giving a BE the ability to clone, no, they shouldn't. Then the difference between a CH and a BE would be moot. Instead of a flood of CH's, you'd have a flood of BE's, since you'd be able to get the benefits of both without spending the skillpoints.
Beyond that, once you're talking about the pets that Creature Handlers use, you're talking about a pretty big risk in getting them. That Rancor that a BE can make me seems pretty nice as compared to standing right next to a pile of rocks and trying to convince one not to break my mask scent and kill me. There is a great amount of risk for a Creature Handler to get the nicer pets, IE Grauls, Mereks, Rancors. So it's not so easy as just magically "making" a pet. Yes, you can just buy them, same as I can buy a weapon. Or a Holocron, or armor. But someone, somewhere, has to tame them.
As far as what is going to be fixed in the upcoming Clone lists, we need to paraphrase a line from one of SOEs competitors: If it isn't in the game, it isn't in the game. Their previous statements about what they would do sounded very pie-in-the-sky to me and the fact that none have been implemented and we haven't even gotten any feedback since the "it won't be in this patch" message back in September make me very skeptical about how much of that is actually coming. Until it is here, assume it is not coming and keep yelling about it.
Add meat to the bioharvester list. It is our biggest need and fewer and fewer people even bother harvesting now because there are SO many much, much more lucrative ways for a CH to spend their time.
I am honestly not sure it is possible for our clones to actually be in high demand given the fact that CHs can get their own creatures for free and many, many times the selection that we have. Unless they set a team of programmers to give us every creature that CHs can get or severely limit the number of creatures in the wild that have babies, we will never have the selection. Yes, they could dramatically increase the abilities of our creatures, but they are finally beginning to understand that the biggest problem in the game is that creature pets' abilities are horribly overbalancing and therefore I cannot imagine that they will let us create even more powerful creatures. While they have dug themselves into a hole where the sheer number of CHs (i.e. paying customers) will not let them perform significant balancing, I cannot imagine that they are going to allow the problem to get even worse by allowing us to create super-pets for people to run around with.
It is, but for different reasons. Especially when it comes to mounts. Bols, specifically, are amazingly rare, if not impossible, to get as a baby. I was hunting them for a couple weeks and never got one to spawn. A Novice BE can make a Kaduu, and while working up to Cloning/Tissues/Sampling I on my BE I made a couple dozen. I'm not sure how they compare as mounts when that goes live, but I have a feeling they won't be far off. Trying to do the same thing with my Creature Handler would be impossible (I don't have that much datapad space). This gives a decided advantage to BE's.
VigalanteFA,
Isn't it only a blunder though as long as what we make is weaker than what is obtainable in the wild? Once that situation has been rectifiedit becomes a choice between and average wild pet and a superior engineered pet. If CH's are the megalomaniacs that the devs and everyone keep accusing them of being then I'd think they'd opt for the superior pets. Same with the "dabblers" who have taken the profession to augment their combat abilities. There would still be competition, sure, but it would be in the BE's favor.
Haggis
I still have not sold one at full price.
Two things.
I think we need some sort of ultimate skill for reaching master. Someone suggested being able to cultivate DNA samples and mass produce identical(and thus stackable) ones in factoriesand I think that's an awesome idea. Of course a catch would be needed to prevent this from becoming too powerful.
Second thing: I think at Master BE lvl Im still getting way too many aggros from things like minor worts. I think in return for loosing the ability to sample over lvl 75 some things should eventually get so beyond our sampling skill that we never get aggro and fail very seldom.
this hasnt made any of your bug lists in a while so:
we cant use our schematics in a factory we dont own.
Zephreus wrote:
grelgen I'm not sure what it is you're seeing there... did you re-deed the factories after the big patch (BE schematics don't work until then). I rent 4 lots from someone on my server, 2 of which are factories - he owns them, I run BE schematics in them just fine (after we redeeded it).
Ditto, two of my factories are on a friends lots. They take BE schematics fine.
Such a massive post I am only able to address a few topics at a time.
Profession Interdependence
First off, I belive that meat harvestors are a terriableidea. Meat gathering is quite effecient and working well on the bazar. I do agree that either fishing needs to be more effecient for high level rangers, or the requirements need to be reduced. As for milk.....we all know that this is messed up. We just have to suck this one up and bear with the dev's on this issue. They are working on it.
Cloning. Now this is where the fights break out. I try to look at this from the ideals the dev's have given us. I was told that this will not be a hack and loot game. Meaning that to find the Uber gear, you need to get a player to make it for you. This being the case, cloning is not following suit. I belive that bio-engineered creatures must be significantly stronger than their wild counterparts to make Bio-engineers a worthwhile profession. A creature handlers profession is to use and tame a creature for combat. We should not give riflemen the ability to make better rifles than weaponsmiths can craft, nor should creature handlers be able to find better creatures than we can make.
Tissues. Needs a bit of work, but things seem to be moving forward. Pet stims are going strong, and people are starting to buy them frequently. The food issues are quite bad. Apart from the fact that our enhancements are to expensive to work, food in general is buggy.
Wish List
There are many things that need fixing in this game, and many more will continue to plauge us in the future. As is the nature of an ever expanding, work in progress. With this in mind I do not hope for perfection. What I want is a playable profession to keep me happy while the rest is getting fixed. I belive that 50 % working is both playable and reasonable. Our tissue line was a big step, but in reality it only counts as half working itself. Problems like non existant materials and usless peices keep the tissue line form living up to what it could be. I will give the experimentation line a 50 % because of the fact that it can effect tissues. Cloning does not function as a useful tool. The dna line. Well....that has always been a sore spot of mine. I do not belive dna sampling should have its own row. My only hopes are that the dev's intended to add more to that line. As is stands now, I feel like our profession is rather thin.
With all that being said, we still need a bit of work. I am hoping, in my infinite selfishness, that the dev's are toiling away at our code and its our turn to be fixed. Untill then, I will continue to watch my "patch loading" screen with anticipation.
Good night, and have fun out there.
-Glurb'Nup
Kauri server
Fishy bioengineer/riflemen
" I've had it up to my gills with those fish jokes Dagit" - Ackot (fellow fish)
Dahjiel wrote:
The solution of making the survival skill increase the fish harvest is not a very good one. The fact you pointed out earlier is that BE is the most expensive crafting professions in terms of skill points. Why then make it even more expensive by adding the Wilderness Survival line to that formula?
Not when you look at it in the concept of the Medical Crafting Professions. Combat Medic and Doc are both more expensive, considering you need Master Medic for both. As for moving the fishing to Survival, no, it would not increase the BE's ability to harvest them, but would make it a lot easier for them to aquire them. One thing to keep in mind is that they are trying to foster interdependance. Not make a BE an entirely cloistered skill.
Is that actually how you see the profession? The specialized BE who is either a Tailor, Ranger, Doctor, Creature Handler or Merchant. I personally think the idea floated around for a while that Novice Medic should have a basic survey skill to use the survey tools should be added. After all, a Medic is not a complete idiot when is comes to operating electronics.
Just the fact that I have to WASTE 15 skill points to obtain the Talusian Fungus, Talusian Water, Unknown Radioactive, Dantooine Fiberplast and a slew of other planet specific resources really makes this very unenjoyable. No Artisan or Miner type is wasting their time gathering these things and I have to find it myself. It is a shame to have to use 15 skill points just to gather the stuff I need to craft.
Again. See above. You do not have to waste 15 skill points on Novice Artisan. You do not need survey tools to get it done. You need one of a few things: Resource Suppliers, a good PA, or allies with Artisan skills. I went through the entire Doctor line without having Artisan, and do not survey for my own resources. They come from my PA, from purchases, or from a friend that's a Master Artisan. And yes... if there is a demand for it, they will gather it. The problem comes when they do not gather the resources. Beyond that... Unknown Radioactive and Talusian Water are both things needed by Docs/CMs.
No, the medic isn't a complete idiot when it comes to electronics. The assumption with the survey tools isn't that it says "ooooh ooooh ooooh dig here". It gives information, and an Artisan trained in surveying can interpreit it. If you want survey skills, then reasonably, they should give all combat classes the ability to use medkits, since they'll always take damage and there isn't always a medic around.
Put this in hand with the week I spent fishing to get a whole whopping 650 fish. (I am more casual than powergamer, as this was done in session 2-4 hours at a time). But still, in that week, I could have most likely leveled up my CH or Rifleman skill. Instead, I spent it knee deep in the oasis on Tatooine while my fellow Imperials kept running past making comments like "jeeze Tagit, you must really love fishing."
So I have my fish and go on the search for Dantooine fiberplast. Overall quality 237. What a crock of poop! I need a planet specific resource and the probability that it spawns with good stats is very low. If we are to continue to need these planet specific resources, then why are they not always at least good quality if not high quality. I guess I can answer that one, so that the resource isn't exploited because it is guaranteed to be good quality, so everybody with a chemical harvester plants it on Dantooine for the fiberplast.
The Best Avian meat out there on Eclipse is OQ 442. It's needed by master docs for all Class-B enhance packs or higher (except action). It's been that way for 3 cycles. Every single crafting class deals with shortages.
Just a suggestion, but could the planet specific resource requirements be relaxed in some way? Could it possibly be a couple different planet resources or a specific resource by name like the weaponsmiths have? I don't know how that works, or how anybody else feels about it, but I am tired of having to constantly keep track of what the quality of the Talusian fungus and water, Dathomir insect meat, Dantooine fiberplast, etc. etc.
In summary:
> Medics should have a basic survey skill (if that is too controversial, then Doctors, Combat Medics and Bio Engineers)
> Planet specific resources are crap
> Fishing is a waste of time
And here's hoping I find a Holocron that tells me to drop Bio Engineer skills since it appears I have a better chance of finding one of those than finding milk.
dWhisper wrote:
The Best Avian meat out there on Eclipse is OQ 442. It's needed by master docs for all Class-B enhance packs or higher (except action). It's been that way for 3 cycles. Every single crafting class deals with shortages.
I would be happy if it was just any fungus or fiberplast that was needed. Imagine if the avian meat you needed had to specifically come from Dathomir. I'm sure you could agree that the probability of having a high quality resource spawn on a specific planet is a lot lower than a high quality resource spawn on any planet.
And that is the problem with using the 15 skill points for artisan just to be able to survey. In order to make pet stimpacks, I need Talusian fungus for the B's and Dantooine fiberplast for the D's. These are resources that nobody, except other Bio Engineers, are surveying. Even asking a guildmate to survey for these is nonsense. The "miner's" out there are constantly working on getting the stuff needed for the weaponsmiths, armorsmiths and architects. To ask some one to "please help me, go to Dantooine and survey a good spot for fiberplast. Then could you please go to Talus and survey for some good fungus," is not my idea of interdependence. I think the word for that is inconvenience. The number of times I had somebody who wanted to do this for me = 0.
And yes, it is true, I expect to be pleased. But I also expect to be able to play my profession the way I want to play it without having to take a novice skill in another profession just to be able to play it. I think that the ability to survey is an essential skill for CM, Doc's, and BE. On the other hand, the abiltiy to use med packs is not essential to a fighting class. The fact that I need these resources to even be able to make the stuff I can make leads to the question "why can I not survey." When I am fighting, I am still able to fight, I can still blast things to smithereens and the only time I wish I could use a med pack is when I bite off more than I can chew.
A fighting class ability to use a med pack is strictly and OPTION that can help to enhance the ability of that profession to fight tougher mobs. To be able to survey for the resources needed to be a Bio Engineer is necessity!