Bio Engineer Archive

hey everyone, go look up this word, and study its meaning

ECONOMICS

Now, go learn the laws of

Supply & Demand

Eventually prices will even out, and we will come to an agreement.... Prices will be high and demand will diminish and prices will plummet and demand will go up... it will teter totter for al ong time until things even out and reach equilibream... This may be a game, but its a prime example of teh fudamentals of economics

Interesting observation at a Chef Vendor today.

Regular Brandy +200potency - 35K

BE Enhanced Brandy +400potency - 265K

Double the potency but almost 8 times the price.

And my 85% Medium additive at 65K a crate is too expensive according to the owner of that vendor. (Guess what, sold 60 out of 80 in 2 hours : ) )

Oh no, now we have a reasonable chef discussing things. We can't have that. Where are all the trolls and flamers? lol

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ArthurDentOnBria wrote:

Dsabre,

Oh no, now we have a reasonable chef discussing things. We can't have that. Where are all the trolls and flamers? lol

Anyhow, I'm not sure who you were referring to when you mentioned the 10cr-20cr/u on harvestable resources. Certainly not me. I used a 5cr/u number when determining my "base" tissue prices of 40k/crate. But I was also the one advocating charging the 25% of the brandy number as well.

As far as people always wanting the "best", well, there is some of that, but people are value concious too. Your fellow chefs have been claiming that non-BE brandy sells well, and I don't doubt that. Also, hyper-yeasted brandy seems to be popular as well. Obviously that has only half the power, but many times the charges. For me personally, I'd take double or triple or whatever the charges at half the power any day, as I find I don't need 2 +400 doses of brandy. That's way way overkill for me anyway.

And as far as meat. well, regardless of how easy some folks claim to be getting meat, it's always been a struggle for me. With all the skill points you tie up in BE, I think I can safely say that no BE has uber fighting skills, and some like me have none at all. So it's kind of irrellevent how easy or hard it is for a warrior to get meat. They charge, what they charge for it, and I have to pay that. End of story.

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I don't think I've ever been unreasonable in my posts, I've repeatedly said that I think 40k or so per crate of finished tissues is fairly reasonable, and that if you don't ever want to sell schematics...that I could respect that (just not those who honestly think a schematic is worth 250k without supplying the resources).

and no, the 10-20cpu cost wasn't your number, there have been a number of other threads discussing chef pricing. in those threads it seems that one used 10 cpu as a cost for harvestable organics...and the other used 20 cpu. sure makes chefs seem like extremely reasonable people when resource harvesters have a 50x or more markup.

I know of a BE who is also a TKM (no he doesn't have any merchant skills) who also harvests his own meat...quite quickly at that. either that or perhaps in partnering with a chef...a BE could also "purchase" meat from the chef. its probably easier for a chef to get meat, not because of the lower number of skill points required, but because some (not all) chef customers will go to great lengths to ensure that they can get food/drink when they need it. this would include many of the hunters (AKA jedi holo grinders).

perhaps other deals when partnering chefs could include:

1) discounts when chef supplies the meat (probably have to be 1600+ oq+pe+fl)
2) if you aren't a master BE...sell schems for cheap, or lower prices on tissues if they help you grind BE
3) drop merchant skills, and move into the chef's shop...have them dedicate one of their vendors for your products. this would allow a BE to pick up TKM, or master rifleman...or cm.


as for people who buy non-BE brandy...I'd wager that at least 1/2 of them that do that only do so because they can't find reasonably priced BE brandy. I've had a crate of non BE brandy on my vendor for ages...while the BE brandy just flies off the shelves. and no, my prices are no where near as expensive as 300k per crate of BE brandy.

part of the problem may be that not everyone knows that brandy can be improved via BE additives...thus they may see that 200 power brandy as being the best they can get (assuming they've never seen BE brandy before...not entirely impossible).

the hyper yeast ones are by far more difficult to produce...dath carnivore meat is rediculously easy to get (no those 100k/hour numbers are not too hard with a 4 person group of decent hunters)...specific types of meat (wild/domestic) are by far harder to get....even tho they can be gotten from mission lairs.

even if you don't need 800+ buffs for the mind stats...you can still choose to take only 1 dose of BE brandy (which effectively doubles the time it takes to run through a crate of brandy). this will allow you to take some of the other drinks that are often overlooked because everyone is full of brandy. things like starshine suprise (incap reducer), or elshandruu pica thundercloud (ranged defense), etc.

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Chatte wrote:

Interesting observation at a Chef Vendor today.

Regular Brandy +200potency - 35K

BE Enhanced Brandy +400potency - 265K

Double the potency but almost 8 times the price.

And my 85% Medium additive at 65K a crate is too expensive according to the owner of that vendor. (Guess what, sold 60 out of 80 in 2 hours : ) )

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one thing to keep in mind for brandy...is the type of container which is being used.

a small glass will offer relatively few uses...maybe 6 uses at the most. it also has a relatively low resource cost, and thus non-be brandy in small glasses will definately be much much cheaper than BE brandy in the standard casks.

a typical crate of casked brandy is about 75-100k, depending on the chef, quality of resources, etc.
if the chef vendor in question was using small glasses for non be brandy...35k is a fairly avg pretty reasonable price...the huge difference may be attributed to both the use of casks (20x more resources than small glasses, and requires subcomponents from another profession as well), and BE additives.

it may also be that if the number of uses the chef had for both non-be and be brandy were the same, the chef did not know that barrels were broken...barrels give the same number of uses as a small glass atm due to a bug, but require almost double the amount of resources that a cask requires. if this was the case...the use of barrels, and BE additives...65k may very well have been too expensive.

if not, well no one ever said all chefs were reasonable. and just as with any "fad" profession, you are going to have some chefs that are only interested in profits.

as other BE's have suggested, perhaps a set price, or % of brandy price would be a more appropriate pricing scheme for additives...I would not advocate set price or % whichever is higher...since the eventual goal of many chefs, and perhaps BE's and others is to bring the price of brandy down, and keep it that way. the 150k per crate price of brandy which seems to be the extreme low end (as opposed to 600k+ per crate reports) is not sustainable with 65k additive costs...well that actually depends on the server...but in general this would be true. but anyway...maybe just look for long term partnerships and set a price based on % (25% has been suggested) of the brandy price 25% of 150k would be just under 40k...fairly reasonable prices on both ends...whereas 25% of 600k is 150k...where both prices would be more than just a tad high.

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SirVimes wrote:

Whenever you see anybody ask for food or brandy, they are always asking for the buff it gives, not for the charges. With the stomach limitiation, you can only take so many of a food or drink. Extra charges won't help you. Power is the number one thing, followed closely by filling, then closely by durration....I have had customers ask me for something that is high on any of the above three...never had a customer ask or complain about the number of charges. But that is just my experience.

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Bivoli Tempari and Thakitillo often draw questions and exclamations when I tell a customer about the low number of charges, and thus the high per use cost. Still, no one is willing to drop from a +25 wound treatment to a +12, or from +100 def vs kd. to +40 to get more charges.

- Mennet

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Dsabre wrote:

I don't think I've ever been unreasonable in my posts

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Agreed, sorry if that was the implication. I think it would actually be real interesting to see what customers would prefer. The extra charges, or the extra power. To me it would be hands down the extra charges. But I guess PVPers or those doing really really high level stuff (nighsisters, etc.) would probably want the power.

Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 03-06-2004 12:22 PM

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ArthurDentOnBria wrote:

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Dsabre wrote:

I don't think I've ever been unreasonable in my posts

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Agreed, sorry if that was the implication. I think it would actually be real interesting to see what customers would prefer. The extra charges, or the extra power. To me it would be hands down the extra charges. But I guess PVPers or those doing really really high level stuff (nighsisters, etc.) would probably want the power.

Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 03-06-2004 12:22 PM

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Whenever you see anybody ask for food or brandy, they are always asking for the buff it gives, not for the charges. With the stomach limitiation, you can only take so many of a food or drink. Extra charges won't help you. Power is the number one thing, followed closely by filling, then closely by durration....I have had customers ask me for something that is high on any of the above three...never had a customer ask or complain about the number of charges. But that is just my experience.

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ArthurDentOnBria wrote:

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Dsabre wrote:

I don't think I've ever been unreasonable in my posts

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Agreed, sorry if that was the implication. I think it would actually be real interesting to see what customers would prefer. The extra charges, or the extra power. To me it would be hands down the extra charges. But I guess PVPers or those doing really really high level stuff (nighsisters, etc.) would probably want the power.

Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 03-06-2004 12:22 PM

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its not that they don't want a good deal...or that they love having to pay more...its the mind encum on that triple layer stun comp armor with 80% resist all...have you ever seen the encum on those?

its well over 600 for H/A/M...sometimes 800+

with that kind of encum...you really do need the +800...which works out to an unarmored 200 or less buff...still not enough, so you need to add some ahrisa or vagnarian canape.

riflemen also NEED super high focus...those specials of theirs...well they'll be incapped by a durni if they miss too often with them. with most races being capped at 500 focus...you need a total of 1000 buff to eliminate the mind costs of specials. so even that 800 power brandy alone won't eliminate it...but it will help...a lot. 2 BE brandy + 3 BE ahrisa = 2000+ focus buff...enough to wear good armor, and still be able to spam specials all day long without having to worry about mind incaps.

the only reason garmorrl and acaragm (spelling?) aren't as popular as brandy...well other than mind being unreasonably important in combat...is the resources needed. one needs meat..no explanations needed on that one, and the other needs soft wood. when was the last time a good spawn of soft wood happened...ever. most of the time SR/DR on soft wood is in the low 300's at best...and oq isn't very good on avg either.

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Dsabre wrote:



the only reason garmorrl and acaragm (spelling?) aren't as popular as brandy...well other than mind being unreasonably important in combat...is the resources needed.

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