Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Schematics!?!?!
Bracci
Tue May 25, 2004 7:27 pm
#14
JayceMilam wrote:Exactly ..... 3 million is a polite way of saying. You are trying to screw me? Well how about we turn that around. If he bought a full run of factory crates from me it would cost 1.8 million. If he wants to try and use me he will pay what i normally charge for 40 crates plus a fee for my skills as a BE and maybe a little more for being a moron. I hear about these other BE's on other servers selling schem for as low as 700k and I am just glad they are not on Bria. It seems to be the server with the highest prices, which isn't good, but i can't imagine BE selling their stuff low is goign to make a difference to the Chefs they will still charge 250k a crate. Maybe some of use BE's should become Chefs temporarily and sell the brandy for 175k or something. Not that I have any desire to be a chef even though my guild needs one.
You obviously didn't read what I wrote - brandy on Scylla goes for 100k a crate. ENHANCED. If we price our tissues any higher than 25k a crate, they don't sell. Selling one (yes, 1) schematic for 700k since the entire factory run would cost me at least 250k in meat and I'd sell said run for 1 million. What's the problem here? Most of the people who have asked me to make the schematic have simply said that no BE vendor they've been to has been stocked. I know I have one hell of a time keeping mine stocked. I make money, they get their product, what's the problem here? so I lose 50k? who cares when compared with the 700k I make?
Albion_DeCrappa
Wed May 26, 2004 12:48 am
#15
My schematics go for~10% the price of 40 crates/1000 tissues or 200k credits.
XpNsVe
Wed May 26, 2004 5:16 am
#16
I think there should be a petition to stop schematic trading. It just **edit**s everyone in the end.
Lurue
Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:32 am
#17
Maybe I'm just missing something here but it seems like the chef's are the ones who are taking the bigger risk. In the first place schematics are limited use. They can only make 1000 items with them. But more to the point, they are resource specific so they're gonna need to have massive amounts of resources to even get to the 1000 mark. Once those resources run out they're out of luck and they have to go back to the BE for a new schematic. I personally don't see what the problem is with making an arrangement like this with a few select chefs that you have a relationship with. *shrugs*
Centurion
Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:06 am
#18
Joilhath wrote:
Chuckle 3mil for a schematic is the polite way of saying no,
I've used this at work (IRL) to tell managerment that while something might be possible, it's not worth the effort but I've never seen it used that way in a game!
ArthurDentOnBria
Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:47 am
#19
Kudos for not doing the schematic, I've been very vocal (lol, what else is new) in opposition to selling or giving away schematics in the past, and I actually took down by master BE title because 99% of the tells I'd get were from chefs wanting free schematics and I was tired of getting into fights nightly, but I couldn't let this go without making this comment:
/rant on
the Bria BE's in their ultimate wisdom have screwed up the chef additive market to such a degree that it isn't even worth selling them anymore (the end product that is). When the meat that goes into a crate of high end (+87 or better) bsn is worth 10k-15k, and bsn's are being sold prolifically (you know who you are) for 17k-20k, there really is no market left to preserve, seriously, it's not even worth selling. Voke has said this before, I'm just repeating it. Also when you see those additives going into chef products which double the effectiveness and are being sold for 250k you seriously gotta question the sanity of such people. And if you compare us to other servers, the cost of everything on bria is sky high, but our chef additive prices are half what others are.
So selling of schematics destroys the market for BE products, and destroys the integrity of the BE class, but I'm not convinced that on Bria at least there is anything left to destroy that hasn't already been destroyed. I may in fact start selling schematics because when you sell products that are valued at the value of the materials themselves, with no markup, you are no longer a BE since you've put a value of 0 on your skills, you are now a fulltime miner and chef slave.
/rant off
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 06-23-2004 09:31 AM
ArthurDentOnBria
Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:04 am
#20
Oh, and just to follow up on my last message. There was recently a post in the Bria trade forum where a new BE was advertising his store and his chef additives at the type of prices you'd see on other servers (hell, he may have even gotten his pricing ideas from coming to this forum and reading what other BE's were charging). So what happens? He posts and the other BE's raid his thread, telling everyone how lame his prices were relative to theirs. So this is not just the case of some people "charging what they think is reasonable" it's actually a case of actively trying to ruin the market for others.
GFoyle
Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:52 am
#21
Looks like my latest "enterprise" could get me hung, drawn and quartered then 
I've recently shut down my BE supply shop. I no longer have the time or inclination to scour the galaxy's shops and bazaars for good quality meat and produce tissues and addatives that sell for a slim profit compared to the time I put in to getting the materials for them (and may or may not sell).
I've found that harvesting and selling resources is far, far more profitable than producing the goods (not that there is anything to spend the profits on).
Most Chefs and tailors now seem to be obtaining thier components from guild buddies which has depressed the market considerably in any case (but, of course, they haven't lowered thier prices!)
Taking all that into consideration I'm now seriously thinking about setting myself up as a consultancy - selling my expertise in making schematics.
Now before the flames start - please think for a minute. This is what happens IRL (in fact, this is what I do for a living myself). All I'm doing is moving the donkey work (gathering resources and running the factories) on to the consumer and supplying my expertise for what is essentially pure profit. That way I don't have to spend my gaming sessions camped in front of the bazaar or running around shops.
I initially thought 50K per schematic - but after reading the above and doing a few calculations 250K would be a more realistic price.
Now inevitably people are going to start screaming "How dare you! You'll ruin every other BE on Chilastra". Well, to start with that attitude is indicative of a will to manipulate the market to artificially inflate prices (and what the heck are you going to do with all that money? Sell it on ebay?!! I have millions in the bank with nothing to spend it on).
At that price I'll still be making several million a week. If I'm successful others will start to do the same - including the chefs and the other expert artisans and this should (in theory at least) reduce the cost of goods generally (and 150K for a case a brandy is just silly).
If people don't like this, I'm afraid it's tough buns. Welcome to free market economics and a modified economic model. I have yet to see a coherant arguement as to why I should not hire out my skills and be forced to work as a shopkeeper.
I am not trying to "ruin the market for others" - how can I be if I'm making a good profit myself? The whole point of a free market is that the most profitable enterprises will succeed (in theory at least - in practice SWG money is worthless after you have paid out for basic living expenses). If you are really determined to control the market and stop me selling schematics then the solution is simple - hire me for2.5 million a week and I won't sell a single schematic...................
droid327
Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:18 am
#22
the flaw with your logic, though, is there are way more BEs on a given server than there are chefs and tailors to drive up demand...by selling schematics instead ofproducts, you release a bottleneck on the economy. Where before, one BE could supply maybe 3 tailors and chefs each and make a reasonable profit, you'll probably see more like a 1:30 ratio for providing schematics, since the 'donkey work' has been downsourced. Basic supply and demand economics takes over from there, and you can see that it WOULD ruin your server's BE economy if there was a broad paradigm shift from products to schematics. Chefs and tailors need to realize, by and large, that BE enhanced foodmeans they need to share profits with the BE who enhanced their food, instead of trying to get their components at-cost simply because they feel BE, being the only profession that only supplies materials to other crafters, should be a wholesale or support-only model.
JayceMilam
Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:32 am
#23
Let me see if I can explain a little since I started this thread awhile back. The whole pointof many of us disliking people selling schematics is as follows; a chef gets the benefit of having Bio-engineer enhanced food without investing the time to master the profession. It is one thing for a player to master BE and make and sell the products he has learned to make, it is quite another to give away a schematic for a small percentage of what the final product would be worth. I mean why not just give the chefs the ability to craft the additive themselves? I have no doubt that most chefs aren't going to drop their prices because they get their additives cheaper. But the bottom line for me isn't even the money ... I think making schematics and trading, selling or giving them away lessens the usefulness of our profession. In order for a healthy economy their must be interdependancy. Furthermore, the more important and usefulprofession is the more players seem to play those profession. I think that the more Master BE's there are, the more SOE will pay attention and fix any problems we have as well as put more time into making our profession fun and interesting.
GFoyle
Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:18 am
#24
Interesting - I see where you guys are coming from, but your reasons for blanket opposition to schematic sales seem to be moving from economics intopolitics.
Byrefusing to supply schematics the overall aim appears to be to restrict supply - on the theory that this will increase the demand for BE's overall.
Unfortunately darn near every economic model I know of predicts that reducing supply also reduces demand - in SWG's case chef foods are so expensive that instead of every player keeping a ready supply of all foods for use as the situation demands the people using food buffs keep only premium food for a very limited number of uses (Vassarian Brandy being the obvious). From experience most chefs I know of use only a few BE's to keep them supplied with addatives - and very often they are friends or guildies who supply the addatives very cheaply anyway (I was forced to lower my prices as a result).
By increasing the supply of addatives we ought to be able to reduce the cost of chef food generally (in theory at least) - thus generating a ready market for all foods - not just the mind enhancing ones. At the moment I feel the economy is a bit sick as only a tiny range of food is available at extortionate prices.
Although there is no way to directly force chefs to lower their prices - as soon as competition starts amoungst them it ought to trigger a drop in prices.
Similarly the arguement that schematic trading "reduces interdependancy" just doesn't hold water. The chef still needs a BE to supply the schematic. Provided a reasonable price is charged for it, whether the profit is made from the schematic or finished good is immaterial. I agree that giving them away though is stupid!
Like all arguements in politics I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
I think restricting the supply of addatives and tissues is strangling the economy, fuelling inflation and depriving a large number of playersthe benefits of enhanced clothing, food, etc. and limiting the use of those items to the better-off players.
I'd rather have an economy where all player-made items are available in abundance at a reasonable price so I don't have to spend hours trying to find a vendor which isn't empty or charges the earth and new players to the game aren't held backwhilst trying to scrape together that initial "stake".Restrictng the market I feel is not the way to do this.
Message Edited by GFoyle on 06-24-2004 11:20 AM
Zarchad
Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:05 am
#25
Since I am a chef/BE, I will only sell schematics to myself.
But dont worry, I wont let me have them cheap
RancorPoker
Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:10 pm
#26
GFoyle wrote:
Interesting - I see where you guys are coming from, but your reasons for blanket opposition to schematic sales seem to be moving from economics intopolitics.
Byrefusing to supply schematics the overall aim appears to be to restrict supply - on the theory that this will increase the demand for BE's overall.
Unfortunately darn near every economic model I know of predicts that reducing supply also reduces demand - in SWG's case chef foods are so expensive that instead of every player keeping a ready supply of all foods for use as the situation demands the people using food buffs keep only premium food for a very limited number of uses (Vassarian Brandy being the obvious). From experience most chefs I know of use only a few BE's to keep them supplied with addatives - and very often they are friends or guildies who supply the addatives very cheaply anyway (I was forced to lower my prices as a result).
By increasing the supply of addatives we ought to be able to reduce the cost of chef food generally (in theory at least) - thus generating a ready market for all foods - not just the mind enhancing ones. At the moment I feel the economy is a bit sick as only a tiny range of food is available at extortionate prices.
Although there is no way to directly force chefs to lower their prices - as soon as competition starts amoungst them it ought to trigger a drop in prices.
Similarly the arguement that schematic trading "reduces interdependancy" just doesn't hold water. The chef still needs a BE to supply the schematic. Provided a reasonable price is charged for it, whether the profit is made from the schematic or finished good is immaterial. I agree that giving them away though is stupid!
Like all arguements in politics I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
I think restricting the supply of addatives and tissues is strangling the economy, fuelling inflation and depriving a large number of playersthe benefits of enhanced clothing, food, etc. and limiting the use of those items to the better-off players.
I'd rather have an economy where all player-made items are available in abundance at a reasonable price so I don't have to spend hours trying to find a vendor which isn't empty or charges the earth and new players to the game aren't held backwhilst trying to scrape together that initial "stake".Restrictng the market I feel is not the way to do this.
Message Edited by GFoyle on 06-24-2004 11:20 AM