Bio Engineer Archive

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Krizag wrote:

For the original post, you can go out and harvest dna solo, it is difficult at times and you will definetly clone a bit but it is possible and workable. I am master ranger/master be and I have fun collecting dna and making pets, its my main reason for being be though my wife steals my be to make tissues for her tailor.

For the people talking about removing the need for scout, I am prepeared to be flamed. The reason for having scout 0040 is because that line is harvesting which is needed for harvesting the DNA. Thats like saying lets remove marksman from rifles or engineering from weaponsmith. Are we going to ask them to remove organic chemistry even though we can make med supplies? The whole point to a template is to have to use your mind and decide what to do with the points you have. Jedi's are a good example. A general template is supposed to be able to master 3 skills, yet if you decide to go jedi, you can only master 2 skills. So you have to make the decision...do you go jedi and give up a 3rd master or do you keep your masters and give up jedi. As a bio-engineer you have to decide on what you want most. For me I figured that I wanted Ranger so I could camo and have a better chance at not being detected which works great for me. I might anger a creature but it doesn't break my camo and others don't join in on trying to stomp me. I have no fighting skills which suck but I made a decision and think that ranger works better for me then a fighting skill. Flame on but it only makes sense. To be able to have the creature knowledge to harvest dna, you need to have creature harvest in addition to bio-engineer. And for those talking about mask scent, while I was working my way to ranger, creatures 50 and higher were constantly breaking my mastser scout mask scent in addition to my +25 mask scent clothing. Masked scent sucks, if you want something, go ranger...its awesome and 100 times better then mask scent. Flame On!!!

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I make it work as a BE/tailor with 0 combat skills.

Have a ranger alt to apply camo generously before going at it. Death is frequent but it's possible to get the samples you need it may just take a few tries.

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lammergeier wrote:

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PlainWhiteSocks wrote:
We lobbied first for the scout prereq to go away then to have it shifted to 4000 during the CU beta. As far as I know we never really got an answer why it wasn't changed yet remained in all the CU docs.

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I suspect that the LACK of change from 0040 to 4000 (or the removal of the scout pre-req) has to do with the increased viability of the 'buster' template...

nBioE, mBH, commando 0100, smug 0100, nSL... with nine skill points to spare. note the MASTER BOUNTY HUNTER part of this template... a profession that arguably offers more combat viability (through skillmods and specials) than any other single profession.

this is only possible with a co-pre-req for BH/BioE of scout 4000... as long as BioE requires scout 0040, this template remains at -5 skill points... which means that a 'buster' is still unable to master a single elite combat profession.

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Even with one master elite the burster would still not be able to take out medium and large bases solo. The Forward Outpost would be be doomed however.

The idea of switching the BH and BE scout requirements is a good one. Makes me wish I had thought of the burster angle earlier.

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PlainWhiteSocks wrote:

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lammergeier wrote:

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PlainWhiteSocks wrote:
We lobbied first for the scout prereq to go away then to have it shifted to 4000 during the CU beta. As far as I know we never really got an answer why it wasn't changed yet remained in all the CU docs.

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I suspect that the LACK of change from 0040 to 4000 (or the removal of the scout pre-req) has to do with the increased viability of the 'buster' template...

nBioE, mBH, commando 0100, smug 0100, nSL... with nine skill points to spare. note the MASTER BOUNTY HUNTER part of this template... a profession that arguably offers more combat viability (through skillmods and specials) than any other single profession.

this is only possible with a co-pre-req for BH/BioE of scout 4000... as long as BioE requires scout 0040, this template remains at -5 skill points... which means that a 'buster' is still unable to master a single elite combat profession.

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Even with one master elite the burster would still not be able to take out medium and large bases solo. The Forward Outpost would be be doomed however.

The idea of switching the BH and BE scout requirements is a good one. Makes me wish I had thought of the burster angle earlier.

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a 'buster' templated toon can still group with a CL80, or a group of seven other combatant/SF CL80's, and do just fine. since they don't need to do any fighting (if they're smart, and with a good group), the problem becomes that a group needs to only sacrifice one of the eight group slots for a non-CL80 toon... rather than coordinate five different professions for a takedown.

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lammergeier wrote:

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PlainWhiteSocks wrote:

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lammergeier wrote:

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PlainWhiteSocks wrote:
We lobbied first for the scout prereq to go away then to have it shifted to 4000 during the CU beta. As far as I know we never really got an answer why it wasn't changed yet remained in all the CU docs.

---

I suspect that the LACK of change from 0040 to 4000 (or the removal of the scout pre-req) has to do with the increased viability of the 'buster' template...

nBioE, mBH, commando 0100, smug 0100, nSL... with nine skill points to spare. note the MASTER BOUNTY HUNTER part of this template... a profession that arguably offers more combat viability (through skillmods and specials) than any other single profession.

this is only possible with a co-pre-req for BH/BioE of scout 4000... as long as BioE requires scout 0040, this template remains at -5 skill points... which means that a 'buster' is still unable to master a single elite combat profession.

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Even with one master elite the burster would still not be able to take out medium and large bases solo. The Forward Outpost would be be doomed however.

The idea of switching the BH and BE scout requirements is a good one. Makes me wish I had thought of the burster angle earlier.

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a 'buster' templated toon can still group with a CL80, or a group of seven other combatant/SF CL80's, and do just fine. since they don't need to do any fighting (if they're smart, and with a good group), the problem becomes that a group needs to only sacrifice one of the eight group slots for a non-CL80 toon... rather than coordinate five different professions for a takedown.

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My alt is a buster. Me one MD Jedi, and one other CL80 can take out any pve or non defended pvp base, and I can solo FO's given enough time. If the Jedi is really good, then just me and one Jedi can take down any base. I guess this means the problem is worse than you described.

I don't believe BE pre-reqs should be based on whether or not it allows better buster templates. Base destruction is only a small role in what a BE is and if they really wanted to nerf busters, they could move the required boxes up higher in their branches. At least I really hope that the devs don't see profession pre-reqs as an effective deterant to buster templates, that would be asinine. Pre-reqs should be useful additions to an elite profession, not a skill point sink. Hunting 4 is useful to BE only if that BE also harvests animal resources which is not a direct fuction of BE, although useful. Its harder to take advantage of that though if you are a crafting only BE. If you have a group that you can tag along with and convince to hunt meat you want, then its not too bad. But most of the time I prefer hunting alone or in a small group with my BH level 80 character eventhough he has less harvesting skills simply because I can take a more active role in combat and am not just a tag alone.

Sure it makes good role-play sense to have hunting 4, but if they required one branch of scout for BE, I would prefer it be 4000. And if they drop all scout requirements I think many BEs would be very happy, crafting or combat oriented alike.

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GlanocRunningstrider wrote:
Sure it makes good role-play sense to have hunting 4, but if they required one branch of scout for BE, I would prefer it be 4000. And if they drop all scout requirements I think many BEs would be very happy, crafting or combat oriented alike.

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Message Edited by Krizag on 06-15-2005 07:59 PM

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Krizag wrote:

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GlanocRunningstrider wrote:
Sure it makes good role-play sense to have hunting 4, but if they required one branch of scout for BE, I would prefer it be 4000. And if they drop all scout requirements I think many BEs would be very happy, crafting or combat oriented alike.

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It doesn't have anything to do with roleplaying, it is there to make it possible for harvesting dna...it gives you the creature knwoledge to pull the dna, just like organic chemistry (pre-cu) gave you the knowledge to make pet stims and the components for them. Its not about roleplaying at all, its part of the pre-req to give you the DNA harvesting skills after novice be, how does exploration help you in harvesting dna? It doesn't. I know everyone has a certain template in mind but you have to make sacrifices for what you want. I would love to be a master be/master ch but unfortunately I like to solo and the ch doesn't help me so I had to make up my mind, go ranger and be able to camo myself and have the highest possible chance to camo and be able to get more samples and quicker or go ch and use camo kits and get lower quality chances to stay hidden while sampling and have pets defend me. I went ranger and never looked back. SWG is about choices, not always the easiest but they make you pick and choose. You can still get exploration 4 if you want, you just have to decide what to give up in return. Creature harvest makes sense and it isn't in a rp aspect.

Message Edited by Krizag on 06-15-2005 07:59 PM

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Well, it makes sense from a point of view, since its called "creature harvesting", but as far as I know the MODS for creature harvesting do not effect your chance to sample DNA or anything like that -- if it did people would be using veghash while sampling DNA. Sure they both have "harvesting" in their names. They could call a branch "animal grooming" and add it to the pre-req to CH, but if it has no MODS or specials that benefit CH, I would consider it similar to this. And the terrain negotiation and mask scent from exploration do help in sampling DNA, not in the sticking the needle into the animal part, but it sure helps when trying to hide from animals or when running away from them -- similar to how you use camo to sample DNA. Organic chemistry made sense since it gave you schematics that were required to make pet stims.

I am not strongly for or against the pre-req -- I can live with it just fine, but I get about as much out of that branch as a Commando or a Smuggler gets out of unarmed. I just would like to know why the devs said it was being cut, then it was not.

They should at least give B.E.s a 'comedic scientist sidekick' skill. Like we get the skill to say something for comedy relief xp during a base takedown.

For example, "Oh, I gotta get me one a' these" gets you 100 comedy relief points, whereas "Your gonna need a bigger landspeeder" would get you 200 points. Of course, the highest points possible would be at master comedic sidekick from "Wessa all gonna diiiiie?"

What about "I have a bad feeling about this?"

The current scout scout pre req makes a little sense in that alot of what we create takes meat.

I'd still like it changed cause we get harvest at novice scout.


Wow, the original thread has been completely de-railed. Sorry.

Message Edited by PlainWhiteSocks on 06-16-2005 01:24 PM

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GlanocRunningstrider wrote:
Pre-reqs should be useful additions to an elite profession, not a skill point sink. Hunting 4 is useful to BE only if that BE also harvests animal resources which is not a direct fuction of BE, although useful.

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