Bio Engineer Archive

or its that you cant get your stim c's over 1k heal?

Okie now that I cleaned up that soda mess....

I do think there could be a dabbler problem.... but we'll have to wait and see. I'll go with Tal-N's 300-500pt difference in HAM, because I honestly don't know what a low level BE mount creature has for stats. 300-500pts is meaningless in PvP unless mitigated by armor... it might make the difference of 1 extra shot to kill the mount for most combat classes.

Maybe a non-Master will post up a carrion spat stats for them along with their profession skill tree numbers to compare to these two I made with leftover CL55 DNA:

• 1215/1205/1197


• 1182/1199/1192

Not the best possible I'm sure, because I used left overs from crafting rancors.

I really really really really like the coloration idea... if we're going to look for a distinguishing characteristic for Master mounts vs Non-Master mounts. It would work simliar to tailoring in that respect (aside from the sockets difference also).

The number one reason we won't be chock full of dabblers. SKILL POINTS. Fact is, BE is just to costly to get to be a viable "dabbler" profession. Only those who have both medic and scout skills are likely to make the attempt. And of those only the ones who intend to go master medic of some sort.

I just don't see anyone going up a useless Organic Chemistry line just to be a BE dabbler. (and yes I think it's useless unless you intend to go Master Medic).
So the bane of all bio-engineers everywhere, SKILL POINTS, will likely save our profession from a GREAT influx of dabblers. So I guess what I'm saying is, I don't see this as going to be much of a problem.

There's also another thing to remember, the materials needed for our goods aren't exactly common so you'll find that even with a huge amount of dabblers there will always be a market since it's impossible to mass produce any items. Sure under the current cloning system dabblers will run us out of the non-ch biz on the whole but under the new system you only get more ability to customize the pet with the more skill you take. On the whole I'm hoping that eng tech is where the bulk of the cutomizing skill mods are since that then means a dabbler needs to go 4/0/4/4 in order to compete with the market.

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i have no idea why it posted like that... oh well.

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Has happened to me twice now too.. multiple posts, one click

I'm not a BE anymore but I thought this information would help add to the value of using a master BE vs a Novice BE for mounts.

You can individually target mounts in PvP! Thats right! You can shoot the mount out from under the rider.

So that extra 1k on a kaduu/spat may make the difference in escaping or entering a dangerous situation. Bigger mounts will have a much better advantage with the new combat dynamic of mounts in battle if the mounts have a bigger ham pool.

Well, I don't think there is any danger of there being a "tissues" BE dabbler. This is because you need 0-2-0-4 to make decent pharma, and 0-4-0-4 to make decent tailoring tissues, and that is too many skill points. This part of the tree actually makes sense (amazing!!!). To me the most likely (and dangerous) BE dabbler is a CH who wants to create mounts and non-CH pets, and to me this could be a huge threat to those of us who are BE-first. A CH already must have scouting correct? so really all they would need to do is add the medical part (which is common to have at least some) to get the novice BE box.

The question really becomes, if a customer wants a mount (let's assume they are non-CH), how likely are they going to be to buy say a souped up Spat from a high level BE, and take it to a CH for training, versus simply buying a "noob" Kadu. For all we know the Kadu might even be a better "ride" than a Spat, no clue really.

And to a lesser degree I think we may have the same issue with "combat" non-CH pets. All non-CH pets now are gonna be pretty much a joke now, on longer a tank, but more of a decoy. I'm not sure there is enough difference between say a souped up Spat and a noob Jax to warrent someone paying the money to the non-dabbler BE.

The other thing to worry about is that now that the "transfer" command is going to be master-only, just how much cooperation can we expect from CH's in training our pets at all (particularly the non-CH market)? My experience has been that non-master CH's are willing to train BE pets for reasonable sums (a few k or for "tips") because they need the xp, but that masters consider this a huge imposition and generally try to get outrageous fees (I've been quoted 1k/command several times). This alone may make buying a non-CH pet from a BE n o longer viable going forward.

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a sec...

Everyone try to relax. All this really comes down to is business sense. No matter what they throw at us, we can handle if we keep kool. Now then, coming from a BE's business mind set, why would you be concerned about a dabbler if you're a master BE? Because they can make nonCH mounts, and stims, and tissues, and yadda, yadda, yadda. So what. If you're a master, you've earned it the hard way right? You did what you had to in order to get to that skill level. And if you were selling your wares the whole time (if you're doing it for money), only getting better, and building a strong customer base the whole time, why are you concerned with little Joey BE, and his lemonade stand full of low end mounts?

You have the resources, and business know how to mass produce high quality products, and already have a customer base who trusts your goods. So don't sweat the little guy. Even if the dabbler is an accomplished businessman, you already have a customer base. This is why I don't see it as a problem. You can do anything they can, but better. Besides, what is a dabbler, if not a novice? Should we begrudge all novices, because some of them may not have intentions of completing the profession? Hell, if that's the case, technically, I'm still a novice, at 4/3/4/2. and I'm a CH at 2/2/2/1. I do however intend on completing both so I don't count, but who are we to tell even dabblers that they have no right to do as they please? one last thing to think about... how's a novice BE 0/0/0/0 supposed to make money? or do you not care?

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| The few, the proud, the gimped. BE is the profession to be |
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Dra'gos Nor - Ahazi/Bio-Engineer - Rifleman
Mistr' Fixx'it - Ahazi/Master Artisan - Architect - Merchant
Kkaos Reinz - Lowca/Brawler - Medic
Lorr - Wanderhome/Tailor
Psylent Nyte - Test Center/Scout
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Be is really the easiest crafting profession to dabble in. A creature handler/medic alreadyhas all the prereqs or close to it. But why wouldsomeone bother spending resourcesmakingterrible kaadus or jaxesthat they canjust go out and tame for free? To me this post is complainingabout the loss of a market thatwill never be there to begin with.

I guess I'm a be dabbler (the definition seems to be anyone but a master) I only have tissue and experiment lines. Cloning is pretty much broken right now, making a bunch of house pets or a slightly better rancor isn't too thrilling. Heh I'mjust aboutas effective as a master be in making tissues and pet stims at half the skill points, do people really have a problem with that?

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Skrymir wrote:

Be is really the easiest crafting profession to dabble in. A creature handler/medic already has all the prereqs or close to it. But why would someone bother spending resources making terrible kaadus or jaxes that they can just go out and tame for free? To me this post is complaining about the loss of a market that will never be there to begin with.

I guess I'm a be dabbler (the definition seems to be anyone but a master) I only have tissue and experiment lines. Cloning is pretty much broken right now, making a bunch of house pets or a slightly better rancor isn't too thrilling. Heh I'm just about as effective as a master be in making tissues and pet stims at half the skill points, do people really have a problem with that?

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You have a good point. I don't have a problem with "BE dabblers", some people have a problem with everything and choose to grief and pick stuff apart because ultimately they are negative in nature and have nothing to contribute. hehe. I like BE, even with the bugs.

I'm not really upset about dabblers so much as being left out once again from something that should have been a huge market for us. According to results from test, kaadu are the fastest mounts. If BE was put into the equation at all you'd think that something a little higher, like the dewback, would have been faster. You would have thought that bols would be our salvation, but instead they just reintroduced the babies. And all varieties of the same creature are mountable. BE was not considered in this design at all other than to say, "Yeah and BE's can make them too."

No one will willingly ride a kaadu into battle because all you can do with it is run away as fast as possible. The kaadu doesn't attack and the rider cannot use any specials. Extra HAM, and possibly armor,would be a nice feature in mounts, but how many people are really going to go out of their way to get it? And how much tweaking are we really going to be able to do with such a severe cl restriction? Oops, that kaadu turned out to be a 12, throw it into practice mode because a real CH can tame a better variety.

Kaadu when they are sold, will most likely be sold on the bazaar for 3k or less. Right now there's some guy being told by his guild that they really needto finda steady source of pet stims and mounts. And I don't think it was just my imagination when we got a lot of new people posting on these boards just after pet stims were introduced. Oh yeah, I forgot about color. Oh, goody, we get to spend a lot of time making technicolor kaadu. That's what we all started playing this profession for wan't it? Purple kaadu?

not sure why someone would dabble in be. the experimentation and assembly bonuses are so topheavy that nothing compares to being made by a master. what you are sacrificing by not being master is 3 experimentation points and the 25% assembly bonus which makes a huge difference in quality. if you dont pick up engineering 4 you are missing fully half the experimentation points and assembly skill.

its simply how the class is structured - if you arent going to get master the items made will be very unimpressive.

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Yosho_Tarien wrote:

I'm not really upset about dabblers so much as being left out once again from something that should have been a huge market for us. According to results from test, kaadu are the fastest mounts. If BE was put into the equation at all you'd think that something a little higher, like the dewback, would have been faster. You would have thought that bols would be our salvation, but instead they just reintroduced the babies. And all varieties of the same creature are mountable. BE was not considered in this design at all other than to say, "Yeah and BE's can make them too."

No one will willingly ride a kaadu into battle because all you can do with it is run away as fast as possible. The kaadu doesn't attack and the rider cannot use any specials. Extra HAM, and possibly armor, would be a nice feature in mounts, but how many people are really going to go out of their way to get it? And how much tweaking are we really going to be able to do with such a severe cl restriction? Oops, that kaadu turned out to be a 12, throw it into practice mode because a real CH can tame a better variety.

Kaadu when they are sold, will most likely be sold on the bazaar for 3k or less. Right now there's some guy being told by his guild that they really need to find a steady source of pet stims and mounts. And I don't think it was just my imagination when we got a lot of new people posting on these boards just after pet stims were introduced. Oh yeah, I forgot about color. Oh, goody, we get to spend a lot of time making technicolor kaadu. That's what we all started playing this profession for wan't it? Purple kaadu?

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It's funny cause all I hear is a bunch of complaining.

I for one am wildly expectant of creature coloring.. that will be awsome!

Anyone that sells kaadu for 3k on the bazzar are ripping themselves off so I don't really care...