Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: BE business ethics question
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milbot
Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:05 am
#1
Hmmm are you saying you don't like the fact he buys your pets so there's less competition for his? If you have a problem with this, either make a load of trash CL10 pets and see if he buys them; if he does milk him for all he's worth. If he doesn't buy them, make some normal CL10 pets and up the price so if he buys them you make some more cash. Most people will but the 10k 60kin pet anyway, so take his money while you can.
You can also put a note next to your vendor telling people to email you if you're out of stock. Should stop some good customers getting away. Maybe keep some good CL 10 pets back so if you get an email, the customer doesn't have to wait.
Hope that helps
You can also put a note next to your vendor telling people to email you if you're out of stock. Should stop some good customers getting away. Maybe keep some good CL 10 pets back so if you get an email, the customer doesn't have to wait.
Hope that helps
furrycat
Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:22 am
#2
Couple of things going on here. First and least importantly the 10k HAM pets.
There is no exploit. These pets are legal. They are certainly overpowered. They are certainly stronger than was intended. It is a bug that you can craft them and at some point the ability to craft them will go away. It is possible but I would by no means say likely that any existing pets around at the time of the change will be nerfed.
But right now today they are legal. If you have moral objections to crafting them or just don't want to craft them that's fine. If you do want to craft them, go ahead.
Secondly and again not all that importantly, the guy these pets for 1 million. That is an insane price for any animal let alone one which can be easily made just by following a recipe from this very forum. He may sell to a few dimwits with more money than sense but in the long term this tactic should not be viable.
Simple economics: charge what the market will bear. It won't bear 1 million.
Finally the crux of the matter. If this chap is buying out your stock in an attempt to discredit you in the eyes of potential customers, that is at best sharp practice and you would have a good argument for calling it griefing. On the other hand you put your pets up for 10k and they sold for 10k so your concern is purely ethical, not financial.
Ask the guy why he is buying your stuff when he could just make his own. Keep a log of his answer in case you decide to report him. If he really is doing it to grief you the first thing you must do is ban him from your shop. 'cos then he can't.
There is no exploit. These pets are legal. They are certainly overpowered. They are certainly stronger than was intended. It is a bug that you can craft them and at some point the ability to craft them will go away. It is possible but I would by no means say likely that any existing pets around at the time of the change will be nerfed.
But right now today they are legal. If you have moral objections to crafting them or just don't want to craft them that's fine. If you do want to craft them, go ahead.
Secondly and again not all that importantly, the guy these pets for 1 million. That is an insane price for any animal let alone one which can be easily made just by following a recipe from this very forum. He may sell to a few dimwits with more money than sense but in the long term this tactic should not be viable.
Simple economics: charge what the market will bear. It won't bear 1 million.
Finally the crux of the matter. If this chap is buying out your stock in an attempt to discredit you in the eyes of potential customers, that is at best sharp practice and you would have a good argument for calling it griefing. On the other hand you put your pets up for 10k and they sold for 10k so your concern is purely ethical, not financial.
Ask the guy why he is buying your stuff when he could just make his own. Keep a log of his answer in case you decide to report him. If he really is doing it to grief you the first thing you must do is ban him from your shop. 'cos then he can't.
Taalar
Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:03 am
#3
He rarely completely buys me out, so I don't get too concerned about that. What I was suspecting was that he was sampling off of my pets for the mental, psych and maybe aggro slots. I could ban him, but he's in a guild and could theoretically just get guildmates to buy from me, then I'd end up having to ban lots of people, some of whom could be legit customers. I don't think any of this of overtly malicious, just opportunistic.
As far as these pets being an exploit, here's what our fearless leader has had to say in a recent thread about clothing tissues (?):
NancyJ-
Something the devs have labelled an 'exploit' and take action against those using it, eg credit dupesand those that are exploits just because its what the word means,which in gaming context is to take advantage of a bug eg. uberpets (though this is a grey area since its only really an exploit if the person doing it knows about it, technically you're just throwing 5 samples together in the normal way and oops you've got an uberpet), powerup slicing, reverse armour hole
This is the only vaguely official thing I've seen on the issue.
So, here's my concerns:
If this b-e routinely buys pets from me, and uses them in his recipe, should I be worried about possible action from SOE?
If he openly sells these pets on the forums and off of his vendor (he also agreed to make more as part of a special order on the forums), does that effectively give us all the green light to make these again?
If so, I have a better recipe, so how much should I charge?
If not, should I increase the price of my pets, or offer to sell him my recipe, or offer to make him gnorts (instead of more costly banthas, etc)., or ban him, or report him, or flame him, or just keep cashing the checks and not worry about it?
Magic_wookiee
Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:25 am
#4
Can you please post the link to that recipe?
furrycat wrote:
That is an insane price for any animal let alone one which can be easily made just by following a recipe from this very forum.
NancyJ
Fri Oct 15, 2004 8:17 am
#5
Taalar wrote:
So, here's my concerns:If this b-e routinely buys pets from me, and uses them in his recipe, should I be worried about possible action from SOE?
No. Not at all. Even if you were making the 10k HAM pets yourself you do not have to fear action from SOE, although in a technical sense, making them is exploiting the bugs in the crafting system SOE are not taking action against anyone who makes them, however when a change to them does come into effect it will be retroactive, so you might have to fear angry customers who paid lots of money for them if you choose to sell them
Zadokk
Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:04 am
#6
NancyJ wrote:
Taalar wrote:
So, here's my concerns:
If this b-e routinely buys pets from me, and uses them in his recipe, should I be worried about possible action from SOE?
No. Not at all. Even if you were making the 10k HAM pets yourself you do not have to fear action from SOE, although in a technical sense, making them is exploiting the bugs in the crafting system SOE are not taking action against anyone who makes them, however when a change to them does come into effect it will be retroactive, so you might have to fear angry customers who paid lots of money for them if you choose to sell them
Soooo thats what they mean by retroactive... so does that mean in the combat nerf all weapons and armour are going to be retroactive?
Spazzers
Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:41 am
#7
It does sound like this person is resampling your pets. You put your animals up for sale and you received the price you asked. I see no issue with the actual purchase. The resampled DNA has no "creator" tag on it. Even if the DNA did have a tag, once it's combined into a new template the name changes to the new creator. The uber pet will only show the BE that made it, not any DNA that went into it.
The only official DEV comments we've received said that they thought the CL10 uber pets were over powered. They said outright they would not accuse any BE of cheating. That tells me the DEV's have acknowledged there is no existing exploit. Also, if you submit a /bug you will receive a response that says the creature creation is working as intended.
If you wish to sell CL10 uber pets just make sure to include a disclaimer. Actually, with the pet check calling normal CL10's invalid, it is in your best interest to include a diclaimer on any animal. You set your "ethics" regarding what you make. Other people set their own. Until SOE comes out and sets a firm guideline what is and what isn't ethical we are left to set those lines for ourselves.
People will buy the uber pets. Most people that have 1 million credits have been in the game long enough to know what a normal CL10 is. They realise what they are purchasing. I doubt many of them will complain to the BE directly when, or if, SOE fixes the uber pets. Besides, I don't see any pet balancing taking place until next year sometime when all the combat balances take place. It wouldn't surprise me to find the BE that is making these uber pets isn't a BE anymore when the balance occurs. He'll have made his millions long before.
milbot
Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:45 am
#8
Zadokk wrote:
Soooo thats what they mean by retroactive... so does that mean in the combat nerf all weapons and armour are going to be retroactive?
According to the odd post here and there when armour is adjusted in the fabled combat rebalance, existing armour will be changed as well. Of course whether that happens is another matter
NancyJ
Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:40 am
#9
tbh I havent a clue and if I went and asked I wouldnt abe able to tell you lol, but I assume so.
ArthurDentOnBria
Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:05 am
#11
It will be retroactive (armor and weapons), you can be sure of that. They reiterated that over and over at fanfest because obviously people wanted to know this (so they could horde pre-nerf stuff if it wasn't going to be retroactive). I'm sure a lot of their ideas about the combat balance have changed over the last several months since then, but I would be shocked beyond belief if they don't follow through with what they said in this particular case. The chaos that would insue with pre-nerf and non-pre-nerf weapons and armor would screw up the game immensely.
According to the odd post here and there when armour is adjusted in the fabled combat rebalance, existing armour will be changed as well. Of course whether that happens is another matter
milbot wrote:
Soooo thats what they mean by retroactive... so does that mean in the combat nerf all weapons and armour are going to be retroactive?
Taalar
Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:50 pm
#12
My recipe for non-ch pets is fairly standard, and usually ends up with 5500 health, around 10-15% kinetic, ranged, medium poison and crippling/stunning attacks. I don't make 10k, 60% kinetic non-ch pets for sale because of the amiguity of their legality. I sellmy level 10sfor 10k, which doesn't make much money, but I figure is a fair price for newer players who would get the most use out of them.
I noticed that one of my competitors had started buying a large number of these. I didn't think much of it at first, but then he started posting auctions for 10k, 60% non ch pets with, oddly enough, the exact same specials as my 5.5ks. He asks 1 million for these.
So what's everyone's opinion on this?
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