Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Discussion Thread: More Variety In Craftable Creature
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ArthurDentOnBria
Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:31 pm
#1
Hi folks,
This thread is to discuss the topic of "more variety in craftable creatures (new skins, colors, sizes)", which was our #2 priority in our Jan '05 issues list.
In know in the past we've expressed a desire to be able to control creature size during crafting, have an expanded color palette, and have more creature skins. In particular snakes, birds, and rats.
Lets hear any ideas or thoughts you have on this topic.
Zadokk
Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:32 pm
#2
My $0.02:
CREATURE SIZE
Pet size should be dependent on the creature level for ALL skins (including Jax, Durni etc). There has been an expressed interest for a 'slider' type control for it but I don't think that will be viable. It will need to a large number of non-ch's having giant sized pets, which is not only unrealistic but will undoubtadlylead to griefing. However, when I say that the scale of the creature should dependent on the CL, it does mean that a level 70 durni should be the same size as a CL70 kimo - that would also be unrealistic (and frankly quite frightening). In the wild, we do see larger scale variations of some animals (i.e. where the same skin has been used, just been enlarged) - and we can see that, for instance with Elder Squalls and Giant Anglers. I think that a similar system should be applied to the BE crafted pets, but I think that since we are Bio-Engineers - ours should be slightly larger than those available in the wild. This can be justified by looking at the real life situation, where through careful selection, vegetables and fruits can be grown to be much larger in size and since this is a futuristic galaxy, I don't see why this shouldn't be applied to animals. I think where the creature level of the pet is larger than its natural equivalent, then the pet should be larger than itsnatural equivalent and where the CL is lower than its natural equivalent, then the pet should be smaller than its natural equivalent.
COLOUR PALETTE
I'm not really too fussed about this. I think the colour pallette is satisfactory as it is. Perhaps increasing it a bit would tie in with the Bio-Engineer profession but frankly, giving us the master tailor colour palette is a bit excessive in my opinion.
SKINS
I do think we need more skins, especially more 'cool' skins such as fliers and I personally would like more insects. The skin list may seem impressive on paper but many of them are useless and have little value other than the novelty value. Many people choose cat skins over anything due to their small size and terrain negotiation abilities. This leaves 90% of the skins going to waste because they are useless. If they are to add more skins then each skin needs to be useful in some way. For instance, certain skins coulddo different types of damage. Spiders could do acid damage, gurrecks with kinetic, kimos with blast etc. I know that there are objections from CHs about the proposed increase of skins because it is the one thing that they can get without the dependence on BEs for. Wild creatures are generally no match for a well crafted BE pet of the same level and the fact that CHs can get wild pets that BEs cannot craft (e.g. Mantigrue Screechers that have plague strike) is something that keeps the CH profession exciting. Careful consideration needs to be made when making this decision. If we are given fliers/snakes then the CHs need something new that they can tame that will have a property that isunusable by BEs.
LloydPickering
Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:00 pm
#3
Personally I would say that we should be given the base skin for most creatures (Why not look at the DB to find the most popular tamed animals at various levels of CH?). As Zad says, we have to be careful about upsetting CHs, so my suggestionwould be to leave all sorts of subsets of pets to them, iesimilar to whatwe have now, we can make Cupa, but a Wasteland Cupa has to be tamed. This would give it a sort of Pokemon 'gotta catch em' all sort of thing for rare 'exotic' pets. Like loot for CH.
I think we need to address the mounts as well. If mounts were able to run as fast as speeders then there would be more inclination for a variety or transport. As it is, we have the same sort of situation as the 'Composite Clone' armor problem,as 90% players use the swoopfor its speed. If we had mounts that were more mobile, and increase the different mounts (kliknik already has a saddle looking thing on its back 
and Rancors were mountable in the EU - where the Devsgot Dathomir from in the first place).
and Rancors were mountable in the EU - where the Devsgot Dathomir from in the first place).It would be a pretty big overhaul to the ground game visually, for very little input. The hard part of implementing mounts is already done. Most ofthe code is already there to implement this, its mainly an art issue. It would be great to see people all wandering round on a multitude of creatures. (Not to mention good for business)
I am pretty happy with the colour pallete, although possibly it would be nice to let the customer choose the colours, like they can with armor. Its sometimes dificult for them to visulise what the colours will look like.
Size...I agree with what Zad said. I don't want giant bunnies running around, and microscopic rancors, but it would be nice to have a more visual indicator of CL without having to /examine.
Grozurr
Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:45 pm
#4
Creature Size:
Personally i think that creature size should vary some with creature level, however not to the extreme where a lvl 70 kimo and lvl 70 barded jax are the same size. similar to zaddok, i think that CL should cause a natural variation in size and that size for each skin should be limited. Even Better imo would be a small degree of control as to size, and then the creature would grow into its size as it grows into it's cl (eg a crature that is 50% of the way to it's maximum CL would be say 50% or 75% of the way to it's full grown size). I would caution against too much variation in creature size based on creature level because it doesn't reflect very well the qualities of the creature, even though it may be a high creature level. Take for example a CL 70 durni that is the size of a graul-- would it be able to go just as fast because it's step size is bigger or would it still be limited to the 5m/s (don't know actual speed) that it normally travels at? Also, some of the most dangerous animals both irl and ig aren't very big at all, such as the poison dart frog or black widow spider who can make anyone very sick with just a little poison, or some of the spiders in game who can do as much damage as (or in many cases more damage than) some of the much bigger creatures.
In short, Cl should only minisculely affect creature size, if at all, and the Be should have some degree control over this other than cl.
Skins:
We need some more skins. i won't argue this too much but i've gotten more than a few requests for a bird and had to only say "sorry, i can't make that" I think it would be cool to make skins a lootable item from some of the tougher creature mobs, similar to how De-10 pistol schematics can be looted at the DWB and you can get geo sonic pistols in the Geo caves. Basically it could be a loot item with say 5 uses or a quest reward for an unlimited use skin, similar to how the RIS schematic learning works, for a skin that is rare or interesting and we don't already have. Already i have ideas for this one such as the bio-engineered animals at the imperial facility (can't remember the planet, just remember trying to sample whatever it was and getting killed), or some of the Geo animals like the enhanced klikniks (which i tried to sample but it wouldn't let me :/ )
Colors:
I dont' know that we need more colors (although it often comes up that i can't make a gurreck, slice hound, XX pet in color XX) but i for one would like to see the ability to alter the SECOND color pattern on pets. I think it would be fun to be able to choose the second color, so you can actually make your pet all or mostly one color if you want. Even better would be the option to choose the design on the pet. If we can choose the color pattern on a player's wookie character it can't be that hard to allow an option for a few color patterns can it? (making those patterns is a different story, however)
Grozzer Agoutt
Kauri
MBE/Sentinel
Personally i think that creature size should vary some with creature level, however not to the extreme where a lvl 70 kimo and lvl 70 barded jax are the same size. similar to zaddok, i think that CL should cause a natural variation in size and that size for each skin should be limited. Even Better imo would be a small degree of control as to size, and then the creature would grow into its size as it grows into it's cl (eg a crature that is 50% of the way to it's maximum CL would be say 50% or 75% of the way to it's full grown size). I would caution against too much variation in creature size based on creature level because it doesn't reflect very well the qualities of the creature, even though it may be a high creature level. Take for example a CL 70 durni that is the size of a graul-- would it be able to go just as fast because it's step size is bigger or would it still be limited to the 5m/s (don't know actual speed) that it normally travels at? Also, some of the most dangerous animals both irl and ig aren't very big at all, such as the poison dart frog or black widow spider who can make anyone very sick with just a little poison, or some of the spiders in game who can do as much damage as (or in many cases more damage than) some of the much bigger creatures.
In short, Cl should only minisculely affect creature size, if at all, and the Be should have some degree control over this other than cl.
Skins:
We need some more skins. i won't argue this too much but i've gotten more than a few requests for a bird and had to only say "sorry, i can't make that" I think it would be cool to make skins a lootable item from some of the tougher creature mobs, similar to how De-10 pistol schematics can be looted at the DWB and you can get geo sonic pistols in the Geo caves. Basically it could be a loot item with say 5 uses or a quest reward for an unlimited use skin, similar to how the RIS schematic learning works, for a skin that is rare or interesting and we don't already have. Already i have ideas for this one such as the bio-engineered animals at the imperial facility (can't remember the planet, just remember trying to sample whatever it was and getting killed), or some of the Geo animals like the enhanced klikniks (which i tried to sample but it wouldn't let me :/ )
Colors:
I dont' know that we need more colors (although it often comes up that i can't make a gurreck, slice hound, XX pet in color XX) but i for one would like to see the ability to alter the SECOND color pattern on pets. I think it would be fun to be able to choose the second color, so you can actually make your pet all or mostly one color if you want. Even better would be the option to choose the design on the pet. If we can choose the color pattern on a player's wookie character it can't be that hard to allow an option for a few color patterns can it? (making those patterns is a different story, however)
Grozzer Agoutt
Kauri
MBE/Sentinel
ArthurDentOnBria
Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:08 pm
#5
Just to help focus this discussion a little bit, consider these examples:
carrion spat: cl 10
giant carrion spat: cl 18
dwarf bantha:cl 11
matriarch bantha: cl 25
squall: cl 6
leviasquall: cl 19
I think that in all these cases, the creatures clearly scale in the wild pretty closely with their CL. So a matriarch bantha probably is about 2.5x the size of the dwarf bantha, and a giant carrion spat is probably 80% larger than a carrion spat.
So using the above examples, how would you like to see our crafting system work with respect to sizing these creatures?
tacwraith
Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:14 pm
#6
im a fairly new BE but id really like to have the ability to TRULY clone a creature.
Say, take 5 dna samples of = quality from the same creature and have an option to 'clone' the creature several times with the same DNA.
So you'd end up with a max of say, 10 'perfect copies' of the creatures (total).
Itd be like our 'pet factory' of sort. Nothing sucks more than working real hard on post 5th gen clones and having only ONE of each generation which has a 60% chance of dying per sample.
On the creatures themselves i would like to be able to use more of my own bio engineer items on the creature itself.
We make tissues do we not? We make special formulas that increase attributes do we not?
So why cant we put these in our creatures?
Tissue/Formula : Affects
During the DNA Template creation, put an extra box for 'enchancements'
Active Biosensors - Increased range for pet to receive commands (+50 meters beyond hearing range)
Passive Biosensors - Increased range for pet to receive commands (+20 meters beyond hearing range)
Coagulant Agents - Increased healing rate for all ham bars while pet is out (+25%)
Carboreductive Catalyst - Lowers creature level ( -5 levels)
Scent Camouflage - Gives creature a permanent mask scent effect
Visual Camouflage - Gives creature a permanent mask scent vs NPC's (aka npc's will not aggro the pet)
During the Creature creation screen, put an extra box for enchancements:
each tissue/formula would affect the attribute by +100 without increasing creature level.
Hardiness : Broad-Spectrum Nutrients
Fortitude : Tensile Resistance
Dexterity : Toughened Fibers
Endurance : Carbocaloric Eliminator
Intellect : Intelligent Nanonutrients
Cleverness : Mimetic Circuitry
Dependability : Passive Tranquilizers
Courage : Active Tranquilizers
Fierceness : Fear Release
Power : Caloric Conversion Supplement
Say, take 5 dna samples of = quality from the same creature and have an option to 'clone' the creature several times with the same DNA.
So you'd end up with a max of say, 10 'perfect copies' of the creatures (total).
Itd be like our 'pet factory' of sort. Nothing sucks more than working real hard on post 5th gen clones and having only ONE of each generation which has a 60% chance of dying per sample.
On the creatures themselves i would like to be able to use more of my own bio engineer items on the creature itself.
We make tissues do we not? We make special formulas that increase attributes do we not?
So why cant we put these in our creatures?
Tissue/Formula : Affects
During the DNA Template creation, put an extra box for 'enchancements'
Active Biosensors - Increased range for pet to receive commands (+50 meters beyond hearing range)
Passive Biosensors - Increased range for pet to receive commands (+20 meters beyond hearing range)
Coagulant Agents - Increased healing rate for all ham bars while pet is out (+25%)
Carboreductive Catalyst - Lowers creature level ( -5 levels)
Scent Camouflage - Gives creature a permanent mask scent effect
Visual Camouflage - Gives creature a permanent mask scent vs NPC's (aka npc's will not aggro the pet)
During the Creature creation screen, put an extra box for enchancements:
each tissue/formula would affect the attribute by +100 without increasing creature level.
Hardiness : Broad-Spectrum Nutrients
Fortitude : Tensile Resistance
Dexterity : Toughened Fibers
Endurance : Carbocaloric Eliminator
Intellect : Intelligent Nanonutrients
Cleverness : Mimetic Circuitry
Dependability : Passive Tranquilizers
Courage : Active Tranquilizers
Fierceness : Fear Release
Power : Caloric Conversion Supplement
Halthron
Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:22 pm
#7
I like the comment of having the base skin for the various critters. I'm not sure I'd want size to scale with creature level. Perhaps this could be done but also with a way for the BE to manually control critter size, say a sliding bar from small to large with each critter starting in the middle and giving a range from -25% of normal to +50% of normal.
Color: There are some critters where I think the number of colors is sufficient, and some where it needs to be improved. Then there are the critters where the colors are fine but the implementation leaves something to be desired. For example, gurrcats. Because the entire cat changes color, I don't use most of the colors. They just don't look good. With others, like the Razor, there are many colors where it's hard to see what changed, the colors being close together and affecting just a small part of the cat.
Must have birds!
Message Edited by Halthron on 01-20-2005 10:23 PM
Hylidex
Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:20 am
#8
I'll break from the crowd here and say that I think creature size should be controllable, but should not necessary reflect level. I don't want to take a razor cat that fills up my view into a cave. Larger creatures can be a nuisance in tight quarters, which is where high-level pets are most useful (dungeons).
I'd like to see it on the color screen, letting us have dwarf rancors and steroid Jaxes. I'd like the level still reserved for /examine.
Zadokk
Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:20 am
#9
i don't this would work as it is very easy to make CL10 pets with 10/8/6 HAM (thus this would still create a pretty big pet, much larger than its wild companion).
Inkanissen wrote:
Perhaps they could introduce size 11 and 12 that would be an option for BE only for the HAM monsters that we make at times, such as a 13k or 14k Health clone. Default size could be set to size 10 (like it is now), and then the BE may decide to change that or not.
Hylidex
Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:36 am
#10
A second comment on variety, I'd like to see:
1. Control over the second color in a creature.
2.A more varied color pallette.
3. Colors thatstick after taming.
4. Control over size of the creature.
5. Names that stick after taming unless renamed by the owner.
6. Flying creature skins (both bird-like, eg. rasp, and reptavian, eg. peko peko).
7.Snakes.
8. Frogs (eg. chuba). Dancers tend to ask for snakes and frogs.
9. Squill
10. A unique BE creature type. (reindeer-like creature, maybe? Ducks? One of the creatures in the pit in episode 2? A polyesteramander?)
11. More variety in high-level source DNA.
Message Edited by Hylidex on 01-21-2005 07:58 AM
Aleskander
Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:50 am
#11
I'd like to see a size limit that we can set. The problem with big pets is they tend to block out the view of everything. Let me limit the size of a rancor...make it more the size of a player...more useable in the tight places.
90% of the CL10 pets I sell (which is a very few) are cat skins. Most of the special requests I get are for cat skins. Adding flyers would be good. I get a lot of people asking for them.
Add a BE only set of skins...stuff that can't be found in the wild. That would give the (very few) CH's a reason to use more of our pets.
Inkanissen
Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:16 am
#12
Zadokk wrote:i don't this would work as it is very easy to make CL10 pets with 10/8/6 HAM (thus this would still create a pretty big pet, much larger than its wild companion).
Inkanissen wrote:
Perhaps they could introduce size 11 and 12 that would be an option for BE only for the HAM monsters that we make at times, such as a 13k or 14k Health clone. Default size could be set to size 10 (like it is now), and then the BE may decide to change that or not.
Sorry, I did not make myself clear.
Size is independant of creature stats just like colour is. It is an option for the BE to set a different size than the default size 10 (all current pets are size 10 when grown). I just had in mind that we might get size 11 and 12 also which we could then decide to use for a 13k HAM pet if we felt like it, or make a puny oversize Jax with 100 HAM for a good laugh.
Hylidex
Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:42 am
#13
Inkanissen wrote:
Size is independant of creature stats just like colour is. It is an option for the BE to set a different size than the default size 10 (all current pets are size 10 when grown).
Ooooh. Where did this number come from? It looks like there is a resource available that I'm not using.
Given this scale, it would be nice to set the size anywhere from 1-30. The place to do this seems to be on the customization screen. Set colors, size, and name.
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