Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Making a Few New Enemies
Page 1 of 3
Hylidex
Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:46 am
#1
I'm going to make a few new enemies today, I'm sure. But the last several months have brought quite a bit of frustration in trying to make the perfect level 70 pet. I had someone offer me 70K today for a multigenerational level 68 pet with some fairly decent stats, and I realized that he had earned that 70k in 2 1/2 lairs working for a total of about 20 minutes. The pet he offered me the money for took approximately 3 weeks to get right.
Even with the so-called solo group nerf, I can make far more on lairs than I can making pets--even without a master combat profession.
Considering the frustration factors involved and the enormous amount of time to create multi-generation pets, I've decided to go up drastically on all my prices. It doesn't make sense that a pet that takes weeks to make should cost less than a ship chassis that can be made in a few days, harvesting time included.
From now until the economy settles down, I'm charging 600K-1M for multigenerational level 60-70 pets, depending on stats and specials. I honestly don't care if anyone buys them. If I find a career MCH, I'll consider giving the pet away rather than trading my time for my customers' timeat 100:1 ratio. If someone is trying to make MCH, I might even make pets to tame for free. But I'm not trading 30 of my own deaths, item decay, the emotional turmoil of multiple experimental fails, travel costs to several planets, vehicle costs, item storage costs, and many days' worth of time I could be doing something else for an hour of customer time any longer.
BE's have been driven out of business on my server already by the frustration level and the inability to make any money in a rapid-inflation economy. I think the few of us who are left who are not chef alts are in it for the love of the profession, not the money, anyway. My only reluctance has been the desire not to hurt the CH profession. So if I find people who are in CH for the love of it, and I'm convinced of that, I'll do anything I can to help them. But for the solo group crowd, I don't think 20-40 lairs (a day's work) is too much to pay for something it takes me so long to make.
I hope some of the rest of you will consider following suit. Even if you don't, I hope you will understand why I decided to do this. It is sad when I am earning far, far more from a0402 combat profession than my mastery.
lammergeier
Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:22 pm
#2
I haven't sold anything in months.
I do custom work only, and I don't charge for it. if the client is pleased, I let them decide whether or not they want to pay me, and how much.
I can make more money faster with a combat toon (and I have several)... or by firing up the engines of my KSE and taking to space.
people complain. I shrug. I had a vendor with pets, petstims, and tissues priced for a cred per. I made another vendor, on another planet with similar stock. the items timed out to the stockroom. I restocked several times. I lost the whole stock to TC vendor bugs, and sold nothing, so I dropped artisan/merchant for scout/CH.
I don't need to cater to the whims of ungrateful players. instead, I keep my profession, I keep my dignity, and I keep my sanity.
I do custom work only, and I don't charge for it. if the client is pleased, I let them decide whether or not they want to pay me, and how much.
I can make more money faster with a combat toon (and I have several)... or by firing up the engines of my KSE and taking to space.
people complain. I shrug. I had a vendor with pets, petstims, and tissues priced for a cred per. I made another vendor, on another planet with similar stock. the items timed out to the stockroom. I restocked several times. I lost the whole stock to TC vendor bugs, and sold nothing, so I dropped artisan/merchant for scout/CH.
I don't need to cater to the whims of ungrateful players. instead, I keep my profession, I keep my dignity, and I keep my sanity.
Hylidex
Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:31 pm
#3
lammergeier wrote:
I haven't sold anything in months.
I do custom work only, and I don't charge for it. if the client is pleased, I let them decide whether or not they want to pay me, and how much.
I can make more money faster with a combat toon (and I have several)... or by firing up the engines of my KSE and taking to space.
people complain. I shrug. I had a vendor with pets, petstims, and tissues priced for a cred per. I made another vendor, on another planet with similar stock. the items timed out to the stockroom. I restocked several times. I lost the whole stock to TC vendor bugs, and sold nothing, so I dropped artisan/merchant for scout/CH.
I don't need to cater to the whims of ungrateful players. instead, I keep my profession, I keep my dignity, and I keep my sanity.
Thanks for the wonderful feedback. I was beginning to think I was alone in my sentiment. I've had players offer me 1M *up front* for a good quality high level special order pet. I currently have one who gave me 1/4 up front. Every week or two I ask, "how about this one?" So far, he's decided to hold out for better. He's asked me several times if I needed more money. For that kind of customer, I don't mind doing everything I can. For friends who have held on to MCH through the nerf because they love having pets, I'll make them for free. For someone who sends me in-game e-mail telling me my prices are too high, and he won't pay over 1K per level, I hate to admit it, but I don't really care if he ever buys. Oddly, I've gone through 20 pistols in the time I've had my own pet. My pet does more damage faster, and it has quite a bit more HAM than I have. He's level 30, and I think of him as a silent friend. The pistols cost quite a bit more than 30K each, and I've never felt ANY sense of companionship from them.
ArthurDentOnBria
Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:37 pm
#4
I can understand why you are doing that, and it's something that has troubled me for a long time. But I'll be keeping my prices where they are though (average pet: 60k, highest priced pet: 150k), simply because making pets is enjoyable, and I want to encourage people to buy from me. I sort of look at it this way: a lot of the things I do business-wise is done to subsidize my pet making endevors. And from a business perspective, my pet making endevors, although certainly not profitable on their own, are a way to differentiate my store from other stores, and bring people in there that might not otherwise come. And I want such people when they come to see competitive prices,good quality, and well stocked, so thatnext time they are looking for something,my store is the first one that they think of. Because once you get someone into your store, they tend to buy a lot of other, much more profitable items (tissues, clothing, pharma, etc.)
One thing I absolutely don't tolerate though is people complaining about my already low prices. If someone comes to me, wants a custom pet, and starts dickering, even a little bit, then the conversation is over, and they can go to somebody else. And if they persist, then they are banned from my store and put on my ignore list. Also 99% of tells that start with: "how much for..." are ignored.
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 12-06-2004 11:39 AM
lammergeier
Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:01 pm
#5
Hylidex wrote:
lammergeier wrote:
I haven't sold anything in months.
I do custom work only, and I don't charge for it. if the client is pleased, I let them decide whether or not they want to pay me, and how much.
I can make more money faster with a combat toon (and I have several)... or by firing up the engines of my KSE and taking to space.
people complain. I shrug. I had a vendor with pets, petstims, and tissues priced for a cred per. I made another vendor, on another planet with similar stock. the items timed out to the stockroom. I restocked several times. I lost the whole stock to TC vendor bugs, and sold nothing, so I dropped artisan/merchant for scout/CH.
I don't need to cater to the whims of ungrateful players. instead, I keep my profession, I keep my dignity, and I keep my sanity.
Thanks for the wonderful feedback. I was beginning to think I was alone in my sentiment. I've had players offer me 1M *up front* for a good quality high level special order pet. I currently have one who gave me 1/4 up front. Every week or two I ask, "how about this one?" So far, he's decided to hold out for better. He's asked me several times if I needed more money. For that kind of customer, I don't mind doing everything I can. For friends who have held on to MCH through the nerf because they love having pets, I'll make them for free. For someone who sends me in-game e-mail telling me my prices are too high, and he won't pay over 1K per level, I hate to admit it, but I don't really care if he ever buys. Oddly, I've gone through 20 pistols in the time I've had my own pet. My pet does more damage faster, and it has quite a bit more HAM than I have. He's level 30, and I think of him as a silent friend. The pistols cost quite a bit more than 30K each, and I've never felt ANY sense of companionship from them.
that's EXACTLY the attraction of custom work.
if you want me to focus several hours of my playtime (or a few minutes, or a week), then ASK me to do it. ask politely, give me a challenge, and I don't much care what the deal pays. I'll take the case or not by how I judge the challenge, and the payoff really doesn't concern me.
I sometimes ask prospective clients to babysit me while I collect the DNA... and then wait while I crit fail the DNA into nothingness... and they NEVER complain again about the rarity of quality BioE products.
lammergeier
Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:06 pm
#6
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:I can understand why you are doing that, and it's something that has troubled me for a long time. But I'll be keeping my prices where they are though (average pet: 60k, highest priced pet: 150k), simply because making pets is enjoyable, and I want to encourage people to buy from me. I sort of look at it this way: a lot of the things I do business-wise is done to subsidize my pet making endevors. And from a business perspective, my pet making endevors, although certainly not profitable on their own, are a way to differentiate my store from other stores, and bring people in there that might not otherwise come. And I want such people when they come to see competitive prices, good quality, and well stocked, so that next time they are looking for something, my store is the first one that they think of. Because once you get someone into your store, they tend to buy a lot of other, much more profitable items (tissues, clothing, pharma, etc.)One thing I absolutely don't tolerate though is people complaining about my already low prices. If someone comes to me, wants a custom pet, and starts dickering, even a little bit, then the conversation is over, and they can go to somebody else. And if they persist, then they are banned from my store and put on my ignore list. Also 99% of tells that start with: "how much for..." are ignored.Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 12-06-2004 11:39 AM
QFE
if you're not closing down the shop, like I have, then do what Mr. Dent does.
1) do the job as well, or better, than anyone else.
2) price fairly.
3) attract new customers who will appreciate your work.
4) cut off anyone who isn't interested in this business strategy.
harrassment takes many forms... from inappropriate language, to merchant abuse. don't put up with it.
droid327
Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:23 pm
#7
I'm with you on this one Hyli....I spend a lot of time working on my pet recipes, trying to find new and better ways to do things and squeeze out every last bit of performance. I'm a tracker, so that helps a lot, but even then its an investment of hours making a pet, even from a proven recipe. My multigen pets start at 200k, and go up over 300k, and they sell! And my CH pets range from 100-200k, since they're a bit easier and I'm making them anyway as first-gens. I dont do custom orders, at all, unless the customer really impresses me as knowing what he wants and knowing whats good and bad to look for in pets...none of this "i want a rancor with 100% kinetic and strong poison/disease at level 21". And ifIdid it wouldbe a few hundred K for that, as well. As long as the CHs realize that they're investing in a pet that will last them the rest of their CH career, or the nonCHs in a pet that will pay for itself in a day or two, I think thats more than a fair price.
Halthron
Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:37 am
#8
Early on lurking on these boards I decided that I wouldn't take custom orders.I laterdecided to ammend that to No custom orders but I will consider custom suggestions. My deal is that if the person is polite and presents something that I wouldn't mind seeing if I can do, I'll take a look at it. Essentially, they give me an idea and if I decide to do it, I give them first shot at the completed pet. I've done a couple of these so far and they've turned out well.
goatt_13
Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:03 am
#9
Recently I've had a spate of /tell beggars requesting/asking if I might give them FREE uber-animals. This occurs on a variety of (Kettemoor) planets, not just emenating from one isolated gang of people.
Let them wage war with Chubas.
Personally, I have no reservations toward bringing on a slew of new enemies, as BE-hood can easily adopt the bloodthirsty tactics (and in-fighting) of earthly artisans.
That is the most important distinction to make, here.
I believe the price ranges cited on the initial post here are more than reasonable for a finely crafted piece of art.
I also stress that the price tag for a pet comes with a name of the creator's choosing. Failure to adhere to that notion is jeopardizing any future collaboration, and a direct breech of trust.
Let them wage war with Chubas.
Personally, I have no reservations toward bringing on a slew of new enemies, as BE-hood can easily adopt the bloodthirsty tactics (and in-fighting) of earthly artisans.
That is the most important distinction to make, here.
I believe the price ranges cited on the initial post here are more than reasonable for a finely crafted piece of art.
I also stress that the price tag for a pet comes with a name of the creator's choosing. Failure to adhere to that notion is jeopardizing any future collaboration, and a direct breech of trust.
Hylidex
Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:06 am
#10
Halthron wrote:
Early on lurking on these boards I decided that I wouldn't take custom orders.I laterdecided to ammend that to No custom orders but I will consider custom suggestions. My deal is that if the person is polite and presents something that I wouldn't mind seeing if I can do, I'll take a look at it. Essentially, they give me an idea and if I decide to do it, I give them first shot at the completed pet. I've done a couple of these so far and they've turned out well.
I don't take exact custom orders, but I don't mind a custom challenge. 
Actually, vendor pets have always sold very slowly at any price. I noticed that price adjustments didn't seem to have any affect at all on sales. Oddly, I could put a city trash pet on the vendor for 6K as advertising with the title "Don't buy this pet. It is junk" and the wp to the vendor with the real pets,and it would sell overnight.
I have given away far more pets than I have sold, and I really don't mind that. I've given away tons of house decorations and CH grinding pets. My own philosophy has always been that if you are a career CH (or want to become one) or want to start out a BE career, I'll do everything I can to help you.
The simple truth is that at the moment, I'm not really making a living as a BE. With no good meat on Gorath for chef tissues and no money in pets, I make far more money in space flying a ship. The only reason I keep BE is the same as the reason I keep my few CH skills. I enjoy doing it.
That doesn't mean I wouldn't love being able to make a living as a BE, though.
goatt_13
Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:20 am
#11
Hylidex wrote:I have given away far more pets than I have sold, and I really don't mind that. I've given away tons of house decorations and CH grinding pets. My own philosophy has always been that if you are a career CH (or want to become one) or want to start out a BE career, I'll do everything I can to help you.
The simple truth is that at the moment, I'm not really making a living as a BE. With no good meat on Gorath for chef tissues and no money in pets, I make far more money in space flying a ship. The only reason I keep BE is the same as the reason I keep my few CH skills. I enjoy doing it.
That doesn't mean I wouldn't love being able to make a living as a BE, though.
Well, now that you've done your part to further deform an economic niche, do you next suggest that we take to the trees on Endor?
I hear the cost of living equates amounts to 10 Ikopis a month, there.
Hylidex
Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:40 am
#12
goatt_13 wrote:
Hylidex wrote:
Well, now that you've done your part to further deform an economic niche, do you next suggest that we take to the trees on Endor?
I hear the cost of living equates amounts to 10 Ikopis a month, there.
Endor tree villages actually sound VERY nice.
Seriously though, rampant inflation hit the economy without BE influence. It came from the huge solo mission payouts. I honestly don't think there are enough BE's left to seriously influence the economy, either. JTL mission payouts are also quite high, and this is working as intended. The economy has moved to a new level. If a loaf of bread costs 500 credits, I would be a fool to work for 5 credits an hour. At least our products result in credit circulation rather than printing up new money.
Even at the new prices, the pets work out to be among the cheapest forms of life span damage dealt (in comparison to a rapidly decaying gun, which may do more damage per creature, but has to be replaced frequently) andof totaldamage absorbed (in comparison to rapidly decaying armor, or 3 hour buffs for 15k each).
goatt_13
Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:50 am
#13
Hylidex wrote:Seriously though, rampant inflation hit the economy without BE influence. It came from the huge solo mission payouts. I honestly don't think there are enough BE's left to seriously influence the economy, either. JTL mission payouts are also quite high, and this is working as intended. The economy has moved to a new level. If a loaf of bread costs 500 credits, I would be a fool to work for 5 credits an hour.
Yet you give away 'decor' pets for free?
Denying they are a valid part of the experience and economy, not to mention a noble initiative, is an attitude suited for a Jedi!
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