Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Do we really need SEA's?
Some people in the wish listtread have wished for BE sea's which got me to thinking. I don't actually see that they are necessasery.
Think of it like this:
With regards to tissues, I think the most points I have ever used is 9 before the line has capped and as they are one line only ten should be the resourse cap anyway so you can't get any better.
With regards to Clones I can already make over level 70 clones with my ten points so that means that in theory any lower combination should be possible without extra points. The unique ability to make generational clones means that you can tinker a hell of a lot more than any other crafting class anyway.
Anyone got an argument for them?
Brutha wrote:
Some people in the wish listtread have wished for BE sea's which got me to thinking. I don't actually see that they are necessasery.
Think of it like this:
With regards to tissues, I think the most points I have ever used is 9 before the line has capped and as they are one line only ten should be the resourse cap anyway so you can't get any better.
With regards to Clones I can already make over level 70 clones with my ten points so that means that in theory any lower combination should be possible without extra points. The unique ability to make generational clones means that you can tinker a hell of a lot more than any other crafting class anyway.
Anyone got an argument for them?
Exp skill tapes may be unbalancing to bio-engineering... To be honest I havent thought too much about it since I feel there are a lot of more important issues with BE that should be addressed...
However, off the top of my head, there could be other Skill Tapes other then exp one... There could be Skill Tapes for DNA sampling to increase the speed and/or increase the chance of success of asample(would be nice to have a bonus when sampling Mutant Rancors!!).
There could also be skill tapes for assembly rather then exp to decrease the chance of a crit.
On one hand I dont like Skill Tapes from the perspective that it fill the pockets of greedy /afk looters... These people make POI caves almost irrelevant as one can almost never do a POI that has any good loot drops without there being some /afk looter in the cave next to the debris piles...
On the other hand, I like the idea of successful MBE to be able to some how distinguish themselves from the rest of the pack... As a successful MBEof several months I feel that I should be able to have some advantage over one who just mastered bio-engineering in a few hrs running a macro.
AS and WS distinguish themselves as 12pts smiths... I want to be a 12pts MBE
Vezek Tapes might be applicable to our "Tissues" line only, which means out pet stims and vitality packs, chef suppliments and tailoring tissues. That would eliminate the issue with clones, and still allow us to progress and excel in making the other products. That side of our crafting is identical to all other crafting professions, so I see no reason not to offer the enhancements there, though I agree that cloning is a separate issue (and fragile enough as a system without adding other potential hits with SEA's).
LLan
Ahh yes I am being narrow minded about experimentation as they are easily the most popular for crafters.
I actually have very little problems with crit fails, I think I have had 2 on clones since i started and while It made me scream, I know a WS who crit failed on someone elses Ackley bones, at least you know you can get more samples that are going to be roughly the same (unless it was a very rare beast).
Sampling ones though I would like. Good thought 
That's an interesting point, as to a "safety factor" in making clones, but I think the failures are a risk that they have decidedis a part of the crafting process, no matter what we feel about it. I hate failing on one, but I think I fall on the side of "against" added points for clone experimentation for the same reason I am against the CL being displayed on the template DURING the crafting process - it simplifies the process FAR too much.
My major issue with SWG in generalis that many things in it are FAR TOO EASY. Mastering a profession while AFK or running a simple macro repeatedly, Soloing missions that take a 5-10 member group to get, and too much of the crafting seems to all be so easy that it becomes repetitive, and more work than game in the volumes people want it done for them.If we could see the CL as we did the experimentation process, it would remove one of the biggest challenges in our profession, or at the very least, render it trivial, and I think we would lose FAR more than we would gain to have it.
Having the CL on a completed template, so we could know if this was a CL 11 gnort-to-resample or a great CL 10 gurreck, and perhaps as has been suggested, adding the identification to the "skin" that tells minimum level and agressive nature would help us greatly, without making the process a simple "push the button 'til the light turns green, then stop" that would remove too much of the skill requirement from clone creation.
Skill tapes are a competitive advantage in crafting the same item that everyone else can make, given the same resources. Our tissue line is that type of production, and deserves the same possibility. Clones are made better through our own skill in the combines, and I think that differentiates our work far more than the SEA's would provide, making them less desirable than for other professions. I am not saying they would trivialize the process, the way the CL on a template in progress would, but that they are not really applicable in the same way, and we can do without them in cloning, where they would greatly improve our potential in Tissues.
Just my opinion, your mileage may vary...
LLan
NancyJ wrote:
The reason I'd like those extra skill points is correcting failures in experimentations - going a point or two at a time really increases the risk of getting failures at some point suring the clone - have 2 more would be like a safety net for clones and more points for pets stims is always a plus
Get some Bespin Port that has been enhanced. I can do a full 6 or 7 points at once after drinking that and always get a great success. Granted you can do 2 to 3 at a time and get the same result in the end. Sometimes I get impatient though for a schematic that is a forgone conclusion.
NancyJ wrote:
Its not often in pet crafting that you want to use 6 or 7 points at a time, more likely you will be using 2 or 3 max at any one time meaning you cant make a lot of pets before you're full of port.
Problem is you'll be able to make more powerful creatures with lesser DNA... That may not be a problem when making triplets and twins but it may cause the DEVs to think some of the resulting CL70 pets are too powerful since we might not be limited to M. Rancor DNA and their sucky PvE stats to make cool CL70 pets (yes there are other pets but they are too rare to be relevant)...
/shrugs
Dont get me wrong, I'm not arguing against it
SomeUser wrote:
NancyJ wrote:
Its not often in pet crafting that you want to use 6 or 7 points at a time, more likely you will be using 2 or 3 max at any one time meaning you cant make a lot of pets before you're full of port.Problem is you'll be able to make more powerful creatures with lesser DNA... That may not be a problem when making triplets and twins but it may cause the DEVs to think some of the resulting CL70 pets are too powerful since we might not be limited to M. Rancor DNA and their sucky PvE stats to make cool CL70 pets (yes there are other pets but they are too rare to be relevant)...
/shrugs
Dont get me wrong, I'm not arguing against it
The stat caps would still be the same and more points generally means higher CL, spare points are great for correcting failures in the situations where you would use 9 or 10 points, if you fail you have to spend a point or two correcting the problem.
I've never felt real strongly about the lack of skill tapes for us, but I still would like to see them. Obviously the two places where they would help us would be in making tissues and in making CL 70ish pets. I think on the positive side they provide motivation to excel and distinguish yourself through doing quests and so forth and get extra experimentation points. I'm sure y'all feel like I do that we were kinda left out as far as Jabba and themepark mission loot. Really no excuse for that. And how in the heck did they create an entire dungeon with a bio engineered theme (actually there are a couple like that) and no BE loot items? Ggrrr. The dark side is what others mentioned, that some losers just devote their gameplay experience to looting piles, making bazillions, and holding crooked auctions.
NancyJ wrote:
SomeUser wrote:
NancyJ wrote:
Its not often in pet crafting that you want to use 6 or 7 points at a time, more likely you will be using 2 or 3 max at any one time meaning you cant make a lot of pets before you're full of port.
Problem is you'll be able to make more powerful creatures with lesser DNA... That may not be a problem when making triplets and twins but it may cause the DEVs to think some of the resulting CL70 pets are too powerful since we might not be limited to M. Rancor DNA and their sucky PvE stats to make cool CL70 pets (yes there are other pets but they are too rare to be relevant)...
/shrugs
Dont get me wrong, I'm not arguing against it
The stat caps would still be the same and more points generally means higher CL, spare points are great for correcting failures in the situations where you would use 9 or 10 points, if you fail you have to spend a point or two correcting the problem.
I hear ya
I just dunno if the DEVs are not doing this because they just dont feel it is a priority **or** if they think it would unbalance the higher level pet making process...
Granted the stats caps would still be there, the issue may be, with more exp pts, you could take lesser DNA, with better stats, and create a more effective high levelPvE pet...
Now one could argue that no matter what, two CL35 pets can always be better then one CL70 for PvE.... Thus even if we made 60%kinetic armored CL70 pets with 12k-13k HAMs across the board and 500-600 damagewith .5 to-hit it wouldnt change the fact you could have two CL35 pets with 60% kinetic, armored, and 10k-11k HAMs and damage in the 300 range with .3 to-hit
The lattergives you 7k-8k more HAMs, the same if not more damage, a higher combine to-hit, PLUS you get access to up to 4 specials instead of 2.
So, what I'm saying is I dont think that it would actually unbalance anything personally... But I am cynical when it comes to what the DEVs think will be unbalancing... I mean TH already stated that a "pet timer"was needed (when the camp requirement was lifted)so CH couldnt call pets at will prior to combat...
I'm still trying to understand how that would unbalance anything... They dont seem to see anything wrong with wearing a "Homemaker" title, with a CDEF, and no armor only to hit a macro in combat and become a Master Elite combat profession with a kraty gun and comp armor...
If anything, the only way pulling a pet out prior to PvP is going to change your chance of winning is the fact there is a great chance your opponent will fall over laughing at his keyboard giving you a chance to get a few more shots in....
Anyhow, I would just hate to collectively invest the effort, via our BE correspondent, fighting for an issue that is not all that important and very well may be a no-go due to the obvious prejudices against CH the DEVs show (least obvious to me during my run as a MCH).
Message Edited by SomeUser on 06-03-2004 12:56 PM
NancyJ wrote:
Its not often in pet crafting that you want to use 6 or 7 points at a time, more likely you will be using 2 or 3 max at any one time meaning you cant make a lot of pets before you're full of port.
Yeah, I don't use port for pet crafting, I use my cake for that. 10 points seem pretty good for the high end stuff. I was working with a bunch fo MR, painswalker youth, quecker relic reaper, and F Grual DNA. I came close to making everything out with just the ten points. A couple more points would only get me a couple more CL levels. As it were I got a nice CL63 with intimidate and stun with a 55-58%ish Kin resist and the 12-13k HAM. Damage was around 500 with a .57 to hit. Those are the stats I remember of the top of my head. All in all I hit all the stat marks and specials I wanted without a crit all night. Made several high level beasts.
We can after pub 10 at least pick up the force sensitive powers to help us out with crafting. That is a start. Either way there is no reason for us to be left out of the skill tape hunts.