Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Wake up and smell the clone poodoo
I'd like to be proven wrong, but this is how i'm seeing things...
Less CH dabblers = Less petstim sales, less clone sales
CH being less effective in a hunting group = Less CH's = Less clone sales, less petstim sales
More agro on CH not pet = Less petstims sales due to less pet damage
Vehicles being far superoir to mounts = Less mounts = Less petstim sales, less mount clone sales
Vehicles being craftable by a 4 box artisan instead of an elite crafter/tamer = More vehicles than mounts, therefore cheaper, better and more available = Less sales again...
Non-CH to use lvl 10 pets = Less non CH pets = Less petstim sales, less clone sales
Being made to chose between faction pet, creature and droid = Less creature pets = Oh less sales..
In conclusion, will we be providing a few durni's to entertainers and fighting over supplying the one or two CH's that feverishly grasp to the remenents of the profession after the majority have been driven off?
Well, for one, faction pets won't be usable against non-overt-faction enemies, so (for example) CHers won't be lugging ATSTs around to tank for them.The favourite CH tank of all time, the Graul Mauler, is taking a major hit in the resistances department (plus the hit all those other CH critters are taking in armour and resists).
I see this as an opening to bioengineer new replacement pets for CHers, an opening for more pet stim sales because critters will get hurt more...
I don't see a mass exodus from CHing so much... every time a nerf comes down the pipe for CHers, they all say they'll quit, and they're still all there.
Less CH dabblers = Less petstim sales, less clone sales
..and the counter point... less resistances and armor = pets that need more healing more often
CH being less effective in a hunting group = Less CH's = Less clone sales, less petstim sales
... less 'kiddie' CHs who didn't want us anyway (also as pets suffer more damage see above)
More agro on CH not pet = Less petstims sales due to less pet damage
.. the new AI is already in place, only NPCs direct their attention to the masters. (also see above)
Vehicles being far superoir to mounts = Less mounts = Less petstim sales, less mount clone sales
... vehicles are pittiful on any kind of hill and you cannot fight from them. Mounts are ideal for terrain and combat. Mounts can also follow you so you don't need to leave the mount alone or set up a camp to recall it if you don't want to walk back. Vehicles are also a money sink while pets regenerate themselves.
Vehicles being craftable by a 4 box artisan instead of an elite crafter/tamer = More vehicles than mounts, therefore cheaper, better and more available = Less sales again...
.... see above.
Non-CH to use lvl 10 pets = Less non CH pets = Less petstim sales, less clone sales
... people will NEVER say no to extra firepower even when the benefit is minor. This might even encourage more CHs who found that pets were so usefull in higher end combat encounters.
Being made to chose between faction pet, creature and droid = Less creature pets = Oh less sales..
...faction pets are permadeath, droids will need regularrepairs and have no special attacks, pets have specials and are easier to maintain. Droids are however supposed to be preferrable in combat to pets however as with all things now you're going to find a certain pet for a certain job. Droids will have ranged attacks which means they are not reliabletanks. A droid also cannot fight anything higher then it's CL rating as it has no special attacks to give it an advantage.
Try to look a bit deeper into things before you start drawing conclusions, a knee jerk reaction is never well thought out.
More agro on CH not pet = Less petstims sales due to less pet damage
.. the new AI is already in place, only NPCs direct their attention to the masters. (also see above)
Are you sure about that? I've periodically had non-NPC mobs break out of combat with my pets and come after me... (A quick "attack" command on it again usually nips that in the bud though.)
The attacking the master thingis mostly for people who weren't grouping with their pets to begin with. If you are grouped you do get attacked if you're standing closer to the target than your pet is, and if you can't get your pet to distract the mob. People who were doing this didn't care much about their pets anyway. I wouldn't dream of attacking with pets without being grouped because you can't watch your pet's status during the fight. So good riddance tobad pet ownersI say.
Less clone sales because CH are quitting...wow that's a difficult order there. Most of the CH's who will quit because of the changes were not using our clones to begin with. And their changes combined with ourswill giveones who are left a reason to come to us.
Less mount sales because of vehicles...again, with our limited selection vs. wild, how long did you really think the mount boom was going to last? This was mostly a CH market to begin with, so no great loss.(I disagree with Tal-N on vehicles, yes they slow down while going up shear cliffs, but you can run diagonally up a cliff to get some of the speed back. And your total speed is much faster. I got aggroed many times, but never actually hit while riding my swoop bike, even when riding through a pack of Tuskans. )
Less clone sales because of nonCH cap...after the initial rush I didn't see too much of this action either. Though now if they want their cl10 to act more like a cl13, who do they need to call?
Less clone sales because people will be riding vehicles and the pet can't keep up, or be called or whatever...if you're serious about having pets, get in the habit of carrying camp kits with you.
Less pet stim sales...ah, thank you! Does this mean I can put my title back up now? I doubt it, but at least a tailor friend of mine has decided to take up BE and I can refer people to her for the boring stuff.
I have a CH/BE on TC.
He is currently attacked by mobs about 50% if he is melee range.
At range the mobs attack my pet first... then me if pet gets incap (I'm low level, so it happens).
NPC's have issues with specials. I have had them come after me with no real pattern... but never while only using standard attacks.
If I send in pet first I'm ok.
If I shoot first (I'm a rodian.. I have to shoot first), I may draw aggro, especially if I'm standing. If I kneel or am prone, shoot, then send in pet I usually do not get aggro.
-T
I'm a BE/CH as well, no combat skills, so I never put a bleed on these critters that are aggroing me. I generally stand about 20m away - close enough to run in and drop a Stim on a pet if need be, far enough away to keep everything in view. I do group with my pets (as mentioned, so I can monitor HAM).
What often happens is this - I send in the pets. They beat on the MOB for a bit. Then, sometimes, the MOB turns and comes at me. (Then, I recommand the pets and it forgets about me...)
still comes down to priceing as well, just shopping for what BE's sell, a rancor with 10500 ham 610-620 for 80k is a little steep with a tamable very close in stats.
to me it will come down to how much better what you create is compared to what can be tamed, and if the price is reasonable
Noen Windryder ~ Eclipse
MCH, Swordsman 0/4/0/4, medic 2/3/4/0
You're missing the point, less dabblers = less CH's....whether they bought clones from us or not before doesn't matter..they definately won't buy them after the fixes if they leave CH altogether.
Did I expect the mount boom to last? No, I thought it was another dead end for BE before and this makes it worse, but that just reinforces my views on our lack of sales for transport.
Its debatable whether people will use a cl10 pet over a droid because no cl10 is gonna be a decenttank anyway and by comparison a droid(esp with the new droid changes coming in) is going to be superior in many ways. This is also not where the majority of our market should be, providing cl10 uber durnis out of our range up to cl60.
I don't see many people fighting from a mount..you can't kite, you can't heal and you can't special...it makes you a handicapped target in many situations. Get used to carrying camps? I do and so will the vehicle owners. Having a kaadu hopping along behind you isn't going to outweigh the speed difference.
I always group with my pets and hardly ever draw agro, even if I do then I can peace out and get the pet to reaquire it. I don't believe the proposed AI changes are in yet, they are supposed to come with the rest of the CH changes. The handler will draw agro as the pet attacking will be seen as an agressive move from the handler and not the pet.
Less resitances mean less pets being used, not more damage. People won't spend the skill points on a profession that gives you weak offence and now poor defence and longer down time due to damage to the pets ( bye bye dabblers...oh no we need them...**edit**)
This isn't a knee jerk, i've been thinking about the changes for weeks, i'm a master not a dabbler and as I stated I want to hear an opposite arguement. This isn't what I firmly believe, this is a debate I have proposed and would like to hear any counter arguements that people have. I certainly won't make up my mind until I have witnessed the changes myself anyhow, I just want to hear what people think.
Traigus - Yes I did mean fodder. Perhaps replacing coffee with micro nutrient supliment would have fit better, but seeing as we are all knee deep in flora food and it probably does smell worse than coffee I thought it to be slightly more ironic.
No exact numbers here but the reasoning holds:
Let's say we sell clones only to about 2% of the CH population right now, for reasons known. Then let's say that about 25% of CHs drop CH after the next publish goes live... so 75% of CH numbers. Looking at current new-clone interest, well over 75% of CHs would like custom made pets. So... if 2 out of 100 CHs wanted our pets before, and 56 out of 75 want them after, you have a MASSIVE market increase. Cloned pets are going to be huge. Even if this hypothesis is off by a good deal, we will still have a gigantic increased interest in clones.
Also consider:
... less resists on pets and less "uber" pets mean more healing (petstims/vitpacks) will be needed.
... more points to be a strong CH means less CHs with Medic skills.
I just do not see any of these changes cutting back on the number of CHs. Sure the profession is going to be weakened, but even with the weaker pets, a decent pet will still be a good or better than grouping with one other player. That is the whole reason that many took up CH in the first place, to have a permanent playing partner, who is available when ever you want to play -- one who plays the same style game you do, and isn't going to do something stupid, and hang you out to dry. I don't see any of the proposed changes spoiling this.
If the pets defenses are lowered, you will need to heal them more, which is good for BEs.
If the BE can make a pet with a comination of specials and or stats that is not readily available in the wild, that also is good for BEs. I have two characters who have at least some CH. I would NEVER buy a creature from another CH, but if a BE could make something special, I would have no problem buying from them.