Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: No BE skill tapes
What got me thinking about this is an auction currently on my server for 3 100K stacks of HQ Dath. Carn. that's up to 15 million, bouncing between chefs, and it just started. I can't imagine what the skill tapes would go for. This is nothing against the chefs or how they do business, but if someone is able to make 85 BSN's using low-grade meat or 88's with high quality, then a non-12 pt. BE could not compete with their 83's and 85's respectively.
This profession is a good example of where knowledge and experience is evident in the quality of product, and adding wealth prerequisite via skill tapes may not be that beneficial IMNO.
I'm to the point now that I just offer to make schematics using their resources at a price, most go for that deal. Maybe you could try that. (Keeps you from having to use a factory too.)
Edit: Sorry, to reply to the original topic.. I have to say I'm half and half on the idea of SEA's. I know that if they were in the game, I could get them free because I have several members in my guild who do nothing but hunt "loots" (without camping spawns) that would get them, and since I'm the only BE in the guild, they would come to me. But I know that not everyone has a PA with the same feel and attitude, so it wouldn't be the same for everyone else. As such, I'm torn.. I'd love to be able to claim "12 pt BE", yet not at the expense of all the "10 pt BE's" on my server losing business.
Message Edited by MusicManZarick on 01-07-2005 10:49 AM
MusicManZarick wrote:
I'm to the point now that I just offer to make schematics using their resources at a price, most go for that deal. Maybe you could try that. (Keeps you from having to use a factory too.)
Actually, having been a BE when the hologrinders killed my market by doing that, I usually refuse requests to make schematics. I do make an exception for guildies, but then the economy within my guild is more like a family economy than a market. I give away a lot, but I also receive a lot.
Historically, the hologrinders drove the price of the tissues down as the price of the foods rose, so we ended up with a relatively small share of a booming market.
Also, in a way I see this as being a chef's alt. It is terribly demeaning. The only time I considered it was a time my customer treated me as his business partner (and offered to share the profits with me). Most chefs that have asked for that have treated me like day labor.
Actually, the "schematic monkey" issue is a prime candidate for our top 5. If you haven't added your vote, you might want to pop over there and do so.
I agree with you Kivrin, to a point. I think that the "12 point" thing is kind of overdone, and is more a product of one's wealth than anything else. I even had one chef one time that refused to deal with me when I informed him that I wasn't a "12-pointer". He proudly told me he was a "12-pointer" and would accept nothing but the best, and stubbornly insisted that there were 12-point bio engineers, and that since I wasn't one I wasn't good enough for him, lol.
The one thing I'd add though is that after you've been a BE (or any other class) for a while, you start to seek out new challenges and such. And once you've reached master, aquired a warehouse full of near-1000 quality materials, made your millions, you start wishing there were other mountains to climb, and ways to improve the quality of your work (and things to spend your money on).The realizationthat you'll never ever make a better tissue than you do right now, no matter how much effort you put into it, or how knowledgeable you become can be a bit of a downer. I think skill tapes and aprons and such may have been added to attempt to offer some of that flavor, the idea of "advancing above master", but it really hasn't accomplished that very well imho.
Kivrin wrote:
I personally don't want to see BE skill tapes, especially experimentation, added to the game. Experimentation tapes are notoriously expensive. As we all know the BE profession is not extremely lucrative. The Chef profession, however, does pretty well for itself. If a successful chef uses his or her alt as a BE, there is probably no way to win a bidding war over experimentation tapes against them.
...
This profession is a good example of where knowledge and experience is evident in the quality of product, and adding wealth prerequisite via skill tapes may not be that beneficial IMNO.
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 01-07-2005 02:19 PM
Hylidex wrote:
MusicManZarick wrote:
I'm to the point now that I just offer to make schematics using their resources at a price, most go for that deal. Maybe you could try that. (Keeps you from having to use a factory too.)Actually, having been a BE when the hologrinders killed my market by doing that, I usually refuse requests to make schematics. I do make an exception for guildies, but then the economy within my guild is more like a family economy than a market. I give away a lot, but I also receive a lot.
Historically, the hologrinders drove the price of the tissues down as the price of the foods rose, so we ended up with a relatively small share of a booming market.
Also, in a way I see this as being a chef's alt. It is terribly demeaning. The only time I considered it was a time my customer treated me as his business partner (and offered to share the profits with me). Most chefs that have asked for that have treated me like day labor.
Actually, the "schematic monkey" issue is a prime candidate for our top 5. If you haven't added your vote, you might want to pop over there and do so.
Having the dev's fix the schematic monkey problem is like asking a car engineer to fix the "too many cars on the road" problem. The schematic money problem is a spinoff effect, and the dev's seem to be only trying to fix problems they can have a very direct effect on. It's probably how we got into the situation we're in now. Can they help out with this problem? Absolutly. Will it happen? I don't think so.
I'm not trying to be anti-dev. I just know that trying to figure out what a zillion people are going to do with the code you write or the mechanics you setup is not an easy task. Much easier to just take the direct approach to the problems that you can clearly see.
I think that 12 points would only help making high level pets, either to repair a bad experiment, or to give those cl 50-60 a bit more dps or something like that. For low-medium levels we don't use the full 10 points anyway in most cases, 12 would be a complete waste here.
Pets tend to have a long life, they are consumed at a far slower pace than food additives. Sure, 12 points may be fun but we don't really need it.
Inkanissen wrote:
Since there is no secret research data in the game, BE tapes would only benefit pet makers the way I see it. Chef/Tailor stuff can be maxed with 10 points, 12 won't make any difference. Better assembly? Again only a real help for pet makers, fewer DNA templates going poof on first assembly, or when used in a skin.
I think that 12 points would only help making high level pets, either to repair a bad experiment, or to give those cl 50-60 a bit more dps or something like that. For low-medium levels we don't use the full 10 points anyway in most cases, 12 would be a complete waste here.
Pets tend to have a long life, they are consumed at a far slower pace than food additives. Sure, 12 points may be fun but we don't really need it.
"wait......what good would being a 12 point BE even do? I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but we're not gated by our exp points - we're gated by resource quality. Being a 12 point BE would only mean you have 2 more points of experimentation left over after you max your experimentation out.
The only place you could use extra experiment points would be in pet crafting, and more likely than not it will only matter on top-end MCH pets, where you're likely to shoot the CL over 70 anyway.
Jekk Badlander "
I was thinking along the same lines...i don't think that chefs would buy up the skill tapes or if they did they'd find themselves with a HIGHLY useless tape for what they might be hoping for. all that skill tapes would really help in is pets, and i agree w/ inkan that assembly or dna sampling (either for cl or success rate) would be nice, but i don't think we really *NEED* them.
Arthurdent i completely agree that the 12 pt thing is overdone and i'm glad to be one of the...2 crafting professions in the game that isn't obsessed with this thing (the other being tailor, which i'm not sure what tapes could do for them, even though the tapes exist)
Grozzer
Kauri
droid327 wrote:
Having BE skill tapes might actually be BAD for the BE profession - here's why. A lot of chefs want to pick up BE as a support, but are scared off by the big skill point investment, since you need MBE to make the quality of tissues they want. With +20 in experiment tapes, you'll have 9 points at X4X4, though, which will let them make 87/117 with HQ resources, reducing the dependence on career BEs even more.
Oh, I hadn't thought of this angle. You are right. The primary effect of a skill tape would be to make it possible for someone without a mastery to have the same experimental effect as a master. So a chef who just wants a BE alt to make chef tissues would only have to invest half the time to achieve it, since he doesn't need either the creature tree or the DNA sampling tree. The primary source of income for creature-makers would be available to anyone who wanted to craft-grind a couple of skill trees.