Artisan Archive
Thread: Suggestions for revamping the 'practice' crafting of Artisans
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ResourceMonkey
Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:04 am
#1
As you may have read, they are planning on doing away with the looping macros. This means no more 'set and go' grind for any professions - including Artisans. It is sad, since we never could go AFK while grinding our profession. But it is a change that I do not think SOE is going to go back on.
Since this will more than likely be the case, a discussion should be held on what ways can we ask SOE to make the grind a bit easier on us. Most other AFK professions can simply lengthen their current macros and have to hit the F key everyso often. This is not the case for us - as we have to access a crafting tool in order to advance.
Mysuggestion would be to implement a new macro called /initiateWeaponDroidCraftingTool that would allow the system to check to see if you had such a crafting tool in your inventory and, if so and it wasn't currently active, initiate it as if you just double clicked on it. This would give us the same ability to write long macros as other professions.
Sigrun
Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:09 am
#2
What if they did something intelligent, like the following:
- Determine the amount of ingame time it should take a player to advance for each "skill box" in the Artisan profession.
- Create a quest system that can evaluate your current standing in Artisan and offer you quests based upon your current skill set.
- That offered multiple different quests- one per box for the next box you have to get.
- And the completion of that quest would take you, say, 1/4 the way through the box for which the quest was given.
- But that the quest *also* was designed to take you about 1/4 of the "ideal" ingame time for that box.
- Oh, and the quest actuallypays enough to cover the expenses for completing the quest, plus a few extra credits of "profit".
Wait... this is SW:G / SOE... what the hell am I thinking!
Content? Feh. Content is for sissies! We're here to GRIND!
Elyssa
Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am
#3
This is just the latest in a long line of ill-conceived game changes.
It's time to take a stand and show the development staff that their priorities are out of order.
ResourceMonkey
Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:18 am
#4
If they had the resources to devote to your suggestion, I'd agree. Right now though, they don't. And they are planning on implementing this change in the very near future. I am looking for constructive ideas that can be used/submitted so that the crafter will not be seriously BONED the moment this comes out. Simple fixes that can be done within the existing code will be looked at and possibly implemented.
Here is another one:
Make all Practice Items take 0 time to be produced. Since there is no tangible item at the end of it - and all this wait made crafters do is carry more than one crafting tool- no reason not to change it. That way the previous macro I suggested can take advantage of any of the crafting tools in the inventory without worrying about whether or not it is being used.
Sigrun
Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:42 am
#5
How about a better idea then, one that coddles to their complete attention to JTL while they ignore bugs in Live?
Just don't spend the resources on this stupid nerf right now. Instead, finish up JTL and then bring your devs back to fix WHY THE GAME IS TEDIOUS AND UNFUN. That will eliminate enough macroing to be worth it.
There's 60-ish pages on that anti-macro thread of TH's.Many very articulately explain why his proposed "fix" won't be a fix. More wasted dev hours, less features. Yay.
I swear, all game devs seem utterly inept. And here I thought it was just Turbine...
/sigh
ResourceMonkey
Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:50 am
#6
All I am doing is looking at the way things work. YES, I would love it if they left things alone - but we all see how often that happens (not). So I am taking a proactive approach to trying to find a solution so those that wish to become crafters have at least some of the same benefits as the others that wish to master other professions.
The 'wasted hours of the Devs' will be little more than adding a ';' before each line of the command descriptions for /macro and /ui action toolbarSlot (less than 5 mins)- so they see it as extremely quick and easy fix. Any additions to that need to be just as quick and easy.
I don't care how you feel about SOE (Hell, I bash them some times as well) but what I do care is that one of the better crafting models in MMO's isn't all but destroyed because people don't want to deal with the grind.
So, excuse me for trying to look out for the crafting professions and enjoy your time in WoW until you find a reason to beotch about their ineptitude.
And, for the record - when I read the 60+ pages, half of them are cheering the suggested changes.
Message Edited by ResourceMonkey on 08-02-2004 09:52 AM
Message Edited by ResourceMonkey on 08-02-2004 09:54 AM
Elyssa
Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:58 am
#7
I think it probably breaks down something like this (percentages are approximate):
15% Entertainers claiming it will be the salvation of their profession.
30% People saying they can't live without recursive macros.
20% People confused thinking that they're doing away with macros altogether.
25% People saying that they don't mind making huge cut & paste macros that are just as good as the recursive ones.
10% People flaming back and forth.
>1% People that truly see how far-reaching and sinister the implications of this change are.
Sigrun
Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:56 am
#9
The "half" that are cheering the suggested changes are the same "half" that are one-starring every post against the idea, regardless how intelligently and articulately stated. The same "half" that have posted that this has to be done for entertainers at the expense of everyone else. The same "half" that's probably justfrom the entertainer forums.
I'm sure there's a way to make the entertainers feel like they're getting some attention without removing features from the game.
And, if you look at SOE's history, they do, at least, listen when their players respond en masse. Don't go counting this as a done deal yet. 
ResourceMonkey
Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:52 pm
#10
Sigrun wrote:
The "half" that are cheering the suggested changes are the same "half" that are one-starring every post against the idea, regardless how intelligently and articulately stated. The same "half" that have posted that this has to be done for entertainers at the expense of everyone else. The same "half" that's probably justfrom the entertainer forums.
I'm sure there's a way to make the entertainers feel like they're getting some attention without removing features from the game.
And, if you look at SOE's history, they do, at least, listen when their players respond en masse. Don't go counting this as a done deal yet.
I agree, sometimes they do respond. But the thing is, can you think of a fix that would take as much coding time as it would to simply remove 100 lines of code from the main program? They are looking for a fast, simple fix and this is it.
I would rather they simply removed whatever it is that people use to keep themselves from receiving AFK status and then have theLD time be 15 mins after you are AFK.
Giamai
Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:42 pm
#11
it used to be that the server would bump you after a certain time if you were afk so to get around that people would add /stand; /sit; /stand; to things like surveying macros so you could be afk
from looking at TH's post, the target is the afk'ers....afk entertainers.
most people are arguing the buffbot vs live entertainer argument but in between there were a couple of nice suggestions for the crafters including putting the practice option on the first screen so you skip everything past ingredient selection. that seemed like one of the better ideas to me.
Kcocemag
Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:31 pm
#12
Well I am kinda new to the crafting deal and am working on weaponsmith. After a few days of grinding and only achieving a handful of boxes in the process, I have come to the conclusion that grinding these crafting boxes utterly sucks major booty and I have much respect for anyone who has completed it. You guys have uber patience.
I, as I am sure most of you feel, do not have a problem with the looping macros nerf AS LONG AS THE CRAFTERS GET SOME COMPENSATION!!!! I see several ways this can happen:::::
1) As mentioned in a previous post, have the practice mode at the beginning of the crafting process.
2) Maybe make it possible to create more than one item at a time during the practice sessions with only one crafting tool. (up to like 5 or so)
3) Make the low-level crafted items actually worth something to somebody!!!!
4) Revamp the missions to (a) provide all resources necessary for the mission's completion (b) actually pay something so the newbs can have some cash when they are ready to start making good products (c) increase the missions difficulty and xp earned based upon the player's crafting skills (d) add a bonus to the crafting xp upon completion of each mission.
5) Or if none of those seem like a good idea to the devs, then make each item worth MORE xp. I mean I have grinded combat professions, and I could average about 2000-3000 xp per minute in the lower marksman/brawler levels. Doing weaponsmith only averages me about500-600 xp per minute and it costs one hell of a lot more money to do it.
So my overall assessment of the situation is this: Crafter get screwed on the money made while grinding, they get screwed on the xp made while grinding, and they get screwed on the entertainment while grinding. I'm sure other professions have their own whines and moans as well, but I think this one needs some major help when this change in macros is made.
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