Artisan Archive
Thread: This is a server fact, and the Devs need to take note of it.
Edvin Juro Wrote:
"Weaponsmith is great if you're a master. On my server there are about15 or even more masters. As far as competing with all of them it's a joke. Those guys (and gals) make uber weapons that people will pay full price for before even paying 90% markdown on the ones a novice makes. I tried this route and it was unrewarding and unforgiving.
This might not be the case on all servers but if you read the weaponsmith boards you'll see the masses of novices having the fight of their life trying to get some business back from the masters. I quitweaponsmithing 2 weeks ago and went into tailoring (of all things! lol)and have made out very well thus far and enjoy it.
This is my input and hope it helps you out in your quest for eliteness. Sorry if it was a downer, just trying to keep peeps from going through what I did. Who knows they may fix a lot of problems and you might love it. To each his own
Edvin Juro (Bloodfin) Master Artisan / Novice Tailor - Uniform Marshall
Tatooine - Wayfar "
This says something REALLY important. It says that a few Master crafters can, and ARE making every other novice crafter in that field obsolete.
Something needs to be done so that the crafter master professions do not eliminate the crafting profession for everyone else. Here is what I mean.
Edvin found that as a novice weaponsmith, he could not compete with the dozen or so Masters on the server so he turned to Tailoring. Now he is on the way to becomming a master himself. As the tailoring profession reaches critical mass (Just as weaponsmith did) then we turn to droid making, then armor smith, then archatect ....... then we are out of luck. We have seen that about a dozen weaponsmiths can effectivly lock up the market for weapons (arguably the largest market in the game) then by extrapolation we see that about 60 to 100 players can ruin the trades for everyone comming after.
This should be looked at.
One thing to keep in mind is how economics works. The main balancing mechanism for every industry is that people do it until it becomes unprofitable and frustrating. So, if on your server, 15 master weaponsmiths can satisfactorily handle the demand, then that's all there needs to be. Everyone else hoping to get rich off weapons, after the balance is reached,will need extreme desire and patience to find a niche in the market. For a true player economy, that's how it's gotta be. Survival of the fittest, and er.. most masochistic.
Things will work out. From everything I've been hearing, weaponsmithing is by far the most profitable craft. People are making millions a month into the game.
Dont tell me he actually asks you to do this:
"I sense that the force is strong in this one. Commission him to craft me a Nemoidian Birdcage. Free of charge, of course." -Darth Vader
E GADS!
This is uncorrectable problem, and has nothing to do with the Master Crafters or *any* crafters. The problem lies in the consumers. The hystirical hordes of "I gotta have the best", "I'll pay *anything* for something that lets me get xp infitesimally faster", those willing to pay 10-100 times more for a gun/armor/whatever that is only 1%-5% better. Master's aren't forcing people to be idiots, as other's mentioned they are begining to be as ill-treated by them as the low-level crafters.
It is uncorrectable, in that no one can really force people to act different. MMORPG's are all about feeding peoples greed, desires and ego's. Oh, and giving whiners a thing to complain about.
I think the issue is that a Master Weaponsmith can make everything the best. He has maxed out experimentation points, so can make any weapon far greater than a novice. As it should be I suppose. When we pick a craft however, we don't want just the end to be fun, but the journey getting there. I don't care if it takes 6 months to become a master weaponsmith, but I'd hope to have a good time while doing it. I don't want the fun to begin after I become a master.
We have a system that tosses a novice on direct competion with a master. This shouldn't be the case in any professoin. Novices should be able to make things too. Maybe not a full weapon, but maybe components he can sell. Many professions, the components can be experimented on, so a master is better off making his own to get a better end result.
I think people are asking for changes so its not an all or nothing deal. This is a game, I don't think people should have to be in a total hell enviornment to move through a useless skill tree.
Actually I do see several possible solutions to this.
1. We were told that Master crafters would need componants to build their weapons, and this is true, however at my level (Novice weaponsmith) you learn to make the componants at the exact same level where you learn to make the weapon itself. I suggest that you should be able to make the componants at least 1 level if not 2 or 3 levels earlier. Think about it. what good does it do you to make the componants 3 levels before the weapon itself? the only thing you can do is sell them to other crafters that need thoes componants to make weapons. Then give the master crafters a reason to buy thoes componants rather than make them for themselves ...... How? ...... Make the componants out of different materials than the Weapons themselves. This would force the Master to go out and find a totally different resource if he wanted to craft the componants themselves, OR buy the componants allready made from a novice. Also graduate the XP gain from making weapons based on level. (You get 2X resource by making a componant of your level, but only 1.5X resource if the item is below you, and 1X resource if it is WAY below you.) This would make the Novices usefull to the masters, and create a better economy.
2. Make weapons decay faster. This would make the hunters and fighters buy more things, and open up more of a market for crafters both novice and master.
What should be happening is the master weaponsmiths should be charging alot more for there fully experimented weapons, as they are far superior to what the novice can make. This even things out by making the better weapon a luxery item. Therefor not everyone can afford this item and the people who can afford this but something better then CDEF goto the novice weaponsmith. As it stands the master weaponsmiths are ruining it for everyone by selling themselves short.
Also you will find that these powergamers will get bored and unlearn there skills to try something new. So don't sweat. Also tailoring seems to be quite profitable, just don't cut yourself short and list your highend stuff on the bazaar. ALthough it was through the bazaar that I got my awesome heavy flightsuit, but even I can admit that it is worth alot more then 3k.
Right now there are basically 2 levels of crafting: Raw resource collection, and final assembly. We seem to need an intermediate step for Component Parts to create a market for the non-master crafters.
I remember reading much earilier in the development of SWG that as you progressed up the crafting trees and schematics became more and more complex, you would have to give up several of the lesser components in order to get the high level ones.What I see now, however, is that you can have every possible component and knick-knack in all the crafting trees at the same time.
Notice how each schematic has a size rating on it. What is that for, exactly, if our datapads seem to have unlimited capacity? If schematic space were limited, those Master Craftsman (all fields) would have to give up the ability to make newbie stuff and buy thier components from the Novice up-and-coming craftsman.
Drev
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Kisedd and other suggest:Novices should be able to make things too. Maybe not a full weapon, but maybe components he can sell.
The problem is that as long as a master can make the same things a novice can, the novices wares have no value. A master is not going to buy substandard parts from a novice, it devalues his final product.
I agree about not blaming the masters. I suspect they are just as unhappy with the situation as the novices.
The problem was that schematic revocation was removed in beta. This would have solved the problems we are discussing. Unfortunately, if they reintroduced schematic revocation, the howls of protest could be heard all the way from the Outer Rim to Earth.
Here is a possible, but less than ideal, solution. Make a limit on the number of crafting schematics a player can have. Make the limit binding at the current number of schematics (so no one has to lose schematics right now). Over time introduce more weapons and parts schematics. Maybe as mission rewards. Force players to delete old schematics in order to add new ones if they have reached the schematic limit. Once a schematic has been deleted it cannot be relearned. This will at least allow for some specialization and maybe give novices some business making things that masters have deleted. I imagine most masters would only keep schematics to the top-level weapons.
The problem lies in people WANTING to compete.
Don't compete. You can avoid it. If there are 15 smiths on your server, and there's 5 on Naboo, 5 on Tatooine and 5 on Corellia, selling your wares in Rori and Talus. There are lower level players there who will buy that sort of stuff. If there are 5 Smiths on Naboo, and there's 1 in each city BUT Moenia, then put your shop on Moenia, or take advantage of the Bazaar there. Even local business can keep you afloat.
Another problem lies in the fact that Novice XYZs (Armorsmiths, Tailors, Weaponsmiths) want to sell their crappy Novice junk. Don't do that. You just finished Mastering Engineering. There's a whole LIST of consummable items you can be crafting and selling to support your practice up to Master (you don't even need Master for Weaponsmithing, just Techniques 4, and some skill boxes in one of the other branches).
Personally, I don't have sympathy for people who say they can't compete...they're just not doing it right. I have no problem with it, though, people with skill and dedication should win out over people who don't. It's a perfect meritocracy.
I think if there were components that you didn't need to experiement on perhaps that might allow a novice to make something that a master didn't feel was worth his time.
I agree about finding a niche in the market and not trying to beat your head into the wall facing a place you have no hope of selling anything, but i think the elite crafting professions have a bit more issues than just finding a place to complete. You just got out of engineering IV, but non of that helps you in weaponcrfting. yes you can get more general crafting xp, but you still have to make stuff you can't sell as a weaponcrafter.