Artisan Archive

Prologue: Jasarina, is there anyway you could get a Dev to look at this please? I realize that I'm about to compliment my own post, but I believe (and please read for yourself) that it's well thought out and I'd really appreciate a Dev response. It got immediately lost in a SEA of griping on the discussion forums, hopefully it won't happen here.

[Begin Post]

For the past two weeks I've been recording the presence or absence of specific resources "species" (I'll call them) assuming that the term "rotating resources" meant that resources would eventually "rotate" back into existence. And I'm not talking about the TYPE of resource either, I'm talking about the specific species.

However, in-game investigation and an old Holocron post that I found have clearly indicated to me that the desire is to have resources exist for a short time and then disappear. I'd like to say why I believe this is a bad idea:

1) Stability - This is a general reason without a whole lot of specifics other than to say that "things are built" around stability. The periodic (and _predictable_) flooding of the Nile River is arguably one of the greatest contributors to the success of the Egyptian nation. They were able to build a solid agricultural "base" from which their civilization could thrive, knowing -- here's the important part -- that _they could count on_ an abundance of food that was produced by the flooding of the Nile. PLEASE don't underestimate the value of stability.

2) Resource / Mining Towns - These are completely impossible. If resources not only move but also go out of existence, then a town could be "famous" for being a major producer of Carbonite Steel for all of about 5 days. After that, maybe they're famous instead for producing some really good Vegetable Fungus or -- even worse -- some "not so good" vegetable fungus.

Again I'll draw a historical reference: colonies. Almost ALL colonization (and the resulting nations and -- in the case of the US ;-) -- EMPIRES) were based around resources. Whether it was the presence of resources or the acquisition of new supply lines of resources, it was these CONSTANTLY PRESENT resources that made such colonies (and their growth) possible.

2b) Towns / Outposts that are based around certain regional resources ALSO become extinct, eliminating the very cool concepts of things like "Damascus Steel" and "Lebanese Cedar Wood" (great historical precepts that this _VERY_ cool game of SW: Galaxies will sadly -- unless something changes -- be without.)

3) Small Mining Operations are ultimately worse off - You can debate this with me, but I'll put forth my belief/argument. Once people realize the TRUE importance of high-quality ingredients, they will put a priority on them. With a priority put on them, I think we'll see that only the MASSIVE mining operations can afford the VERY high cost structure that will be required to pull MASSIVE amounts of the material out of the ground.

Realizing that this wonderful resource is going to disappear in 7 days, the "Big Iron" harvesting companies will LAUNCH into action to survey as many strong caches as they can and then plop down their harvesters to suck the resource dry. Now personally, I like the sound of that, it sounds cool. HOWEVER, I believe the "little guy" who just wants to run 1-2 Personal Harvesters to sell smaller quantities of materials to "lower end" clients won't be able to do this. These are the smaller operations that are more content to rely on a smaller but STEADY STREAM of resources that they can sell on a regular basis.

Rather than producing a short burst of a MASSIVE amount of resources that they wholesale to the wealthiest weapon crafters in the game.

Those are the only thoughts I can think of that I believe possibly haven't been expressed yet. I would URGE you to greatly consider the FIRST one, even though it may have the least "technical" rationale involved. HUMAN SOCIETY thrives because there are constants in our lives (gravity to keep us on the ground, air to breathe, etc.) PLEASE do not turn the citizens of SW:Galaxies into "nomadic tribes" who need to move wherever the resources go. We want to become a civilization, not nomads.

Vryce Ganvi

The reason we have rotating resources is to prevent resource mining towns. If resources never shifted then there would only be certain good spots to gather resources. Those who put down their harvesters on that spot would be able to control the resources. This doesn't make the game better, it puts the game in control of fewer and fewer people.

By rotating the resources it opens up oportunties for everyone. While you might not get the best spots all the time, you do have a chance to get some really good spots.

I agree a bit on your stability point, resources could shift a little less often, but the longer I play the game the more I can prepare for them. I think if some enhancements were put into the game for harvesters notifying you when they turn off and being able to get power and maintence out of the harvester or at least storeed so you can move it.Better in game bookeeping on how long certain resources have been around might help the more casual gamers who aren't on every day to track these things.

You do get the regional resource effect, its just the cycle is a bit faster. If the shifts happend a bit less often that would open up more time for certain trade routes to develop. This week on my server there is no reactive gas on Talus. I have begun to supply this gas to people I know on that planet.

Shifting resources on the other hand offer great opportunities for exploration. With a constantly changing world, you need to branch out and explore to find the best spots and best quality resources. It offers opportunites for a niche.

There is room for small mining operations. With a constantly changing environment there is oportunitiy for everyone. Most people I know that mine resources, do it because they have to not because they want to. While there are a few vocal people who want to mine full time, this looks more like the minority. Most just like to build stuff and can't get enough resources to do what they want.

I gotta agree with Kisedd that rotating resources is the way to go. If the resources stuck around for extended periods then larger operations would dominate the resources much more than they are able to now.

They'd send out swarms of surveyors each equipped with medium or large extractors and full loads of energy and credits, they'd find all the richest spots and blanket them with extractors. They'd pack them so tightly onto the richest spots that the smaller operators would only be able to squeeze in a personal extractor here and there.

Kisedd's second paragraph pretty much says it all. The shifting resources make the playing field more even. Everyone gets a shot at whatever appears if they do their surveying and keep on top of things. Latecomers get shortchanged but when resources shift they can potentially get a rich spot on the new resources. If resources were static then whoever got there last would be almost permanently out of luck.

I agree as well with much of what Kisedd says.

But I guess I'm one of the so-called 'minority.' Whether I'm vocal or not remains to be seen. I'm a supporter of the mining 'profession'. Just because we don't have a fancy title underneath our names doesn't mean the game system built for miners to have fun should be weakened.

Scarcity of resources is a feature of the game. The fact that you can't get all the resources you want, when you want them is part of the challenge. Being forced to go off world for some resources is part of the challenge.

I know the mining system is the red-headed step child of the artisan class. Many artisans just don't want to deal with mining. Well, fact is, many combat types don't want to deal with entertainers. Many combat types don't want to have to deal with you, the artisan--they'ed rather just have loot.

But this is a game of interdependance. Crafters are not, and should not be, exempt from this. Mining and mners is the one system that demands a bit of crafter dependance. When you argue for fewer resource restrictions, you are really arguing for less dependance. Sorry, that shouldn't happen.

Oh, and as for the 'casual gamer' card that people like to play. I'm a casual player, and a casual miner. My lots are full of harvesters. Every few days I fill my 25 bazaar spots with 25k resources. I'm also a casual crafter. I'm about half way into novice architect. But honestly I'm not worried about leveling any skill. I'm having too much fun doing other things.

We need resource rotating.

Without it:

1. There would never be a rares market. T-21's would ALWAYS be available.

2. Every item crafted by a master level crafter would be identical. Everyone would find out what the best resources to use would be and just use those.

With shifting we have variety. That's good for crafting. There's millions of combinations of resources, and every crafter uses something a little different.

If you look at real life history, they had resource shifts also. Take the gold rush for instance. Every time someone found a few nuggets miners from all over would come in hoping to strike it rich. Mining towns would form out of camps at these areas. When the gold went dry they packed up and headed off to the next location where someone found a few nuggets leaving behind buildings as ghost towns. Also, places like Damascus weren't famous for the steel that they found in that area but the technique they developed in working the steel.

lumber was a major industry for the colonies. Of course, once you cut down a tree it never grows back. Thusly, once the trees in the surrounding area were cut down, they would have more farms with their new sapce.

Now that i have an excuse, i'm going to add that i think it would be awesome to put in a mining or farming profession. or have one a branch of the other.

I'm also going to give a thumbs up to rotating resources.

As a casual player and novice weaponsmith, I keep my edge in the market by staying ahead of the resource curve. I try to plan for shifts, bank away portions of good resources and manage the existing panel of resources to make the best weapons.

I think static resources would take the fun out of crafting. It would become well know what the best copper was to make a certain type of gun and massive extractors would go up. The other thing you have to remember is that certain areas have a fixed amount of a give resource and therefore a fixed number of lots. Its conceivable that one or two players could dominate a mining site and squeeze out players coming up the food chain. Shifting resources keep every player in the game and creates greater interdependence.

Please do not change this aspect of the game.