Artisan Archive

Thread: Basic Economics FOlks

Jnath
Fri May 07, 2004 1:31 pm
#1

Excellent point, its good to see more fiscally minded people out there.


The problem is that crafters in SW have no incentive to look to the long term in their businesses. They price based on cost because they are thinking of moving that ONE item. They dont think about (and likely have no concept of) moving entire inventories. So the whole idea of how price effects the number of units you will sell in the long run (we are talkin the short long run if you follow), completely escapes most people and they price their items based soley on the individual cost of that particular item.





Jenar
Master Droid Engineer
Director - Cabal of the Toothy Maw
Cult of Sarlacc (Starsider)

"It's the accumulation of small pinpricks over time that causes one to bleed to death" -- Shian Tavkin, Master Droid Engineer/Master Artisan
Tralmek
Fri May 07, 2004 2:06 pm
#2

In general I agree, but it's not as simple as it has been made out. There are much more complex things which move the RL marketplace including politics and "the other guy." We don't have to worry so much about Galaxies' political situations, but we do have to worry about the competition. Sometimes the smart thing to do is to sell for well below cost. RL situation: McDonalds wants to attract some of Burger Kings customers so McDonalds advertises Big Macs for $.99. There is no way they are making money off of those hamburgers at that price, but they are counting on people not just buying the hamburger, because most people will order a soda and fries to go with it. McDonalds would go out of business if they only sold Big Macs for $.99, but they count on that deal to attract more customers than usual so they have a gain in profits.


I have no quarrel with people who "undercut" other people's prices. I have no troubles with people buying out vendors and re-selling the items for a higher price. This is the way a mature economy should work. The problem comes when we have people in the economy who are not interested in profit...these are the hologrinders. All they want to do is grind through crafting and merchant as quickly as possible so they can move on to the next profession so they sell things for less not to attract customers, but just because they don't care about profit. Unfortunately these people can do something which we cannot do in real life: they can afford to buy resources at a cost of 20k per vehicle and then sell those vehicles at 6k, but not only do they do this with vehicles, they do it with every other crafted item they make as well...this makes all of our skills valuless.


I submit that after the hologrind stops we will again have a healthy economy where crafters are interested in profit and will price their products responsibly. So long as our competition can afford to sell all of theiritems for less than the cost of materials we will be in this situation.





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GrafvonSoden
Fri May 07, 2004 3:02 pm
#3

I also think the economy will improve after the new jedi system is out. If some one is crafting, it's because they want to, not doing it to get to next profession. At least I hope so
ESJ178
Sat May 08, 2004 12:05 am
#4

Greetings all,

I've noticed over the past comments to which I had to bite my lip on thinking....they just don't get it. Well, here goes-


A simple rule for artisan item pricing.............what the market will bear darnit.....


Never confuse cost with price.............they aren't the same......next time you buy a can of Coke you experience this rl fact.

Almost everything in rl follows this rule in capitalist economies.


The cost of resources is inmaterial to the ultimate market price. If resources are overpriced and the market won't accept a speeder at 40K or whatever, then don't make it. Make those items the market needs and demands and price em at the market price which is where you should make a reasonable profit related to what your investiment was to make the item, including resources, time, skill etc. If the market doesnt value the item then don't make it.


Quit confusing the cost of something with the price you sell it for. It drives me crazy that artisans only price on resource cost.....it hurts all of us.

OckVofad
Sat May 08, 2004 9:11 am
#5

Can someone who was here prior to hologrinding comment on what the prices were like? Ive only been here a month.



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Tralmek
Sat May 08, 2004 9:42 am
#6

Prices were a lot cheaper on pretty much everything. Those -15 crafting tools we see now selling for 2 or 3k used to sell for only about 100 credits, a +15 one could run you upwards of 500 credits. If you could sell a resource for 5cpu, it had to be top-notch stuff, most resources sold for 2-3 cpu. A truly great weapon wouldsell for much less than 10k. (compared to getting a poor-quality one now for no less than 20k or so.)

The grinding has also brought a lot of the "big ticket" prices down. I remember when I could sell my personal harvesters for 1000 credits per BER point. Now, because they are used for grindingby holo'ers, you can pick them up for 300-500 credits total.


Overall, I think the prices now are totally unreasonable, especially on resources. It makes it so that an artisan has a hard time making a living, I mean here are some prices I noticed on the bazaar yesterday:


Weapon, Droid, and General Item Crafting Tool -2.xx: 1500cr
Food & Chemical Crafting Station +3.xxxxxx: 350cr

Mineral Mining Installation BER 3: 6000cr

Avian Meat: 250cpu

Landspeeder: 3000cr

Speederbike: 4500cr

Swoop: 6000cr

Vehicle Customization Kit 4-use: 4cr

Small Generic House 5000cr


These prices are terribly messed up. You can buy a crafting station for less thanwhat you pay for acrafting tool, a mining INSTALLATION has been used for grinding, and yet has less BER than a personal harvester...yet the owner expects it to sell for 6k when people can pick up a personal one with BER 4 for 500 cr? A premium price for meats used to be 15cpu and now it sells for more than 16 times that. The most offensive thing on the list is the vehicles: people are selling them for less than 1cpu!


This economy is horribly messed up right now, but I think it can be fixed by getting rid of the hologrinders.




Feeling no connection with the Force since 2003
*feels an outer glow*. The HAWT side is with me
Have a question? Read the Stickies!
Remember: Only YOU can prevent forum fires
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Ganger
Mon May 10, 2004 6:29 pm
#7

I remeber first starting this game in september 2003, and were i bought my first padded armor for 6k (for chest piece) and it was the best stuff back. And it seemed people didn't rush as much as their do now and the community was more friendly.


I think the hologrind killed the game and I don't think it is a fair system to become a jedi in the first place because, 1. some guy just wants to be a jedi and justs holo grinds way though and don't care about the community. 2.Myself, I want to be a jedi but love playing the game what I want to be (a master bio engineer and a master creature handler) I got a shop opened, i take orders,I tame other peoples pets, helpnewbiesout and im a collector of rare loot. So the all holo thing penalizes us players that want to play the game and roleplay in swg by forcing us to do professions we won't todo..... bring on pub 10

LadyGrey
Tue May 11, 2004 4:59 pm
#8

On top of everything said here, there are the guilds and theplayer-cities. Those groups will often use crafted items as incentives for joining them (like getting a toaster for opening a bank account). I have seen people get money, a house, vehicle, harvesters, weapons and armor - just for joining a guild and being part of a player-city. And many of these were brand-new characters, being handed everything that I had to work for months to be able to get. The guild leaders will deliberately build up crafting characters in order to supply their guildmembers with free or extremely low cost items. A player economy cannot stabilize or be viable with such things going on.


Unfortunately, though I can see this as a problem, I have no clue how it could be prevented or worked around. Perhaps the devs (who seem to really hate sharing any real information with us) intended the game to be a bunch of communes, each independently supplying their respective members with goods and services. Or perhaps they had no clue what would really happen.


My personal belief is, that prices should be based on a number of factors, with the cost of the raw resources being only a small part of the equation. The usefulness of the item, it's expected life-span, difficulty of obtaining resources for it, and steps (and factories) required for crafting it, should all be part of deciding upon a price. Add to that the difficulty of advertising and selling your product (only 25 items allowed on the bazaar, galaxy-wide, is simply absurd), and the expected end-user of the product, should also be taken into consideration.




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