Artisan Archive
Thread: Artisan Enhancements planned for Publish 7
Page 1 of 1
Guruweaver
Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:30 pm
#1
Howdy all,
Thunderheart just released to us the plans for publish 7. He says he'll publish all the notes to the public shortly, but I thought I'd give y'all a quick peek at the Artisan-related changes in the next publish.
Notes below:
Crafting System Enhancements: One of the top concerns for crafters of all types was the issue of “critical fails”. Critical fails are a risk that all crafters take when attempting to create an item. This basic dice roll function is the gamble crafters take as part of the risk of crafting, but as a resounding player concern, the developers looked at the system to see how the relationship of crafter and crafter-risk could be made to have a stronger relationship to the fictional act of crafting. Toward creating a stronger crafting experience, a new modified die roll model has been implemented to enhance the experience so that now, a crafter’s raw ability will have an effect on how often critical fails occur. Crafting still works on the same risk/reward principle of a 5% critical fail chance, but is now modified with the player’s assembly or experimentation skill. As crafters progress from Novice to Master they will have a reduced chance of a critical failure.
Experimentation Resource Quality: Crafting experimentation has been enhanced so that the amount of change that each experimentation point will affect an item attribute will now be calculated by the maximum value for the item. Therefore, regardless of the quality of resources used, each experimentation point will affect the attribute by the same amount. Now, the maximum value upon which a resource attribute is allowed to be experimented is affected by the quality of resources used. This will have a much more noticeable effect on the crafting experimentation process, making it more interesting, challenging and easier to understand. This will noticeably reduce the effectiveness of experimenting with low quality resources by all players. However, this will give master crafters more of an advantage over less skilled crafters, as they have more experimentation points to use, and will be more likely to produce an item with maximum attributes.
End Notes:
There are a number of other changes, such as combat changes, the ability to call pets/vehicles/droids without a camp, vertical movement of objects, new craftable light sources (I believe they are architect only, I'll confirm), sliced weapon tag, a number of significant droid enhancements, and junk dealers are being reactivated.
There is more, but I'd thought I'd pick out the tastiest bits for y'all.
Thoughts? Comments? Concerns?
Take care!
Thunderheart just released to us the plans for publish 7. He says he'll publish all the notes to the public shortly, but I thought I'd give y'all a quick peek at the Artisan-related changes in the next publish.
Notes below:
Crafting System Enhancements: One of the top concerns for crafters of all types was the issue of “critical fails”. Critical fails are a risk that all crafters take when attempting to create an item. This basic dice roll function is the gamble crafters take as part of the risk of crafting, but as a resounding player concern, the developers looked at the system to see how the relationship of crafter and crafter-risk could be made to have a stronger relationship to the fictional act of crafting. Toward creating a stronger crafting experience, a new modified die roll model has been implemented to enhance the experience so that now, a crafter’s raw ability will have an effect on how often critical fails occur. Crafting still works on the same risk/reward principle of a 5% critical fail chance, but is now modified with the player’s assembly or experimentation skill. As crafters progress from Novice to Master they will have a reduced chance of a critical failure.
Experimentation Resource Quality: Crafting experimentation has been enhanced so that the amount of change that each experimentation point will affect an item attribute will now be calculated by the maximum value for the item. Therefore, regardless of the quality of resources used, each experimentation point will affect the attribute by the same amount. Now, the maximum value upon which a resource attribute is allowed to be experimented is affected by the quality of resources used. This will have a much more noticeable effect on the crafting experimentation process, making it more interesting, challenging and easier to understand. This will noticeably reduce the effectiveness of experimenting with low quality resources by all players. However, this will give master crafters more of an advantage over less skilled crafters, as they have more experimentation points to use, and will be more likely to produce an item with maximum attributes.
End Notes:
There are a number of other changes, such as combat changes, the ability to call pets/vehicles/droids without a camp, vertical movement of objects, new craftable light sources (I believe they are architect only, I'll confirm), sliced weapon tag, a number of significant droid enhancements, and junk dealers are being reactivated.
There is more, but I'd thought I'd pick out the tastiest bits for y'all.
Thoughts? Comments? Concerns?
Take care!
Puck_Starfire
Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:33 pm
#2
Nope no real comments. Glad to see light sources finally coming out so all these shops quit looking like a Hawaiian hut. We have space-age shops with Droid Vendors and torches LOL. Good to see the Crits fixed tho I never had an issue with it.
IceMonkey05
Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:47 pm
#3
So does that mean like, we can make powerups stronger then 32.9/16.4?
Quujquux
Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:52 pm
#4
Guruweaver quoted, Thunderheart wrote:
Experimentation Resource Quality: Crafting experimentation has been enhanced so that the amount of change that each experimentation point will affect an item attribute will now be calculated by the maximum value for the item. Therefore, regardless of the quality of resources used, each experimentation point will affect the attribute by the same amount. Now, the maximum value upon which a resource attribute is allowed to be experimented is affected by the quality of resources used. This will have a much more noticeable effect on the crafting experimentation process, making it more interesting, challenging and easier to understand. This will noticeably reduce the effectiveness of experimenting with low quality resources by all players. However, this will give master crafters more of an advantage over less skilled crafters, as they have more experimentation points to use, and will be more likely to produce an item with maximum attributes.
Didn't they try to push this one off on us in a few publishes back, but it got pulled from TC after massive protesting?
If I'm reading this right, instead of getting 7% improvement on a great success, I now get 7% of max percentage on a great success. So with materials that have a 50% final cap, each experimentation point nets me 3.5%. In no way is this an enhancement. Any schematic with gating resources, and that applies to pretty much every crafting profession, is nerfed.
/sarcasmAnd we certainly needed to make master crafters more appealing over novice crafters, because I know all the novice crafters were stealing all the business from the masterson my server.
I hate tosound negative without seeing the changes in action. I hope I'm reading this wrong, and it turns out to be a nifty change. Can someone explain to me how I might be misunderstanding?
Amatron
Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:38 pm
#5
I agree, it's a hard to understand article, even with footnotes that I made for myself in an attempt to compare that philosophy against howIwork with resources, experimentation and attributes at the present time. If anyone can translate it, congrats.
EpiFett
Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:45 am
#6
It means that only masters working with the best resources will be able to make 99% items.
If the Resources qualities = 1000
Then 10 Experimentation points = 99% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4) + (Eng/Dom 4)
Then 09 Experimentation points = 90% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4) + (Eng/Dom 3)
Then 08 Experimentation points = 80% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4) + (Eng/Dom 2)
Then 07 Experimentation points = 70% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4) + (Eng/Dom 1)
Then 06 Experimentation points = 60% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4)
Then 05 Experimentation points = 50% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 3)
Then 04 Experimentation points = 40% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 2)
Then 03 Experimentation points = 30% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 1)
Then 02 Experimentation points = 20% Experimentation ---------- Novice Artisan
Then 01 Experimentation points = 10% Experimentation
Then 00 Experimentation points = 0% Experimentation
If the Resources qualities = 500
Then 10 Experimentation points = 50% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4) + (Eng/Dom 4)
Then 09 Experimentation points = 45% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4) + (Eng/Dom 3)
Then 08 Experimentation points = 40% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4) + (Eng/Dom 2)
Then 07 Experimentation points = 35% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4) + (Eng/Dom 1)
Then 06 Experimentation points = 30% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4)
Then 05 Experimentation points = 25% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 3)
Then 04 Experimentation points = 20% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 2)
Then 03 Experimentation points = 15% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 1)
Then 02 Experimentation points = 10% Experimentation ---------- Novice Artisan
Then 01 Experimentation points = 5% Experimentation
Then 00 Experimentation points = 0% Experimentation
Important to note, that since we do not recieve any additional Experimentation points in our Master Box, noone has to reach Master Artisan to make our best stuff.
All they have to do is take up both Engineering 4 and Domestic Arts 4, and they get the entire 10 Experimentation points.
.
If the Resources qualities = 1000
Then 10 Experimentation points = 99% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4) + (Eng/Dom 4)
Then 09 Experimentation points = 90% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4) + (Eng/Dom 3)
Then 08 Experimentation points = 80% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4) + (Eng/Dom 2)
Then 07 Experimentation points = 70% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4) + (Eng/Dom 1)
Then 06 Experimentation points = 60% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4)
Then 05 Experimentation points = 50% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 3)
Then 04 Experimentation points = 40% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 2)
Then 03 Experimentation points = 30% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 1)
Then 02 Experimentation points = 20% Experimentation ---------- Novice Artisan
Then 01 Experimentation points = 10% Experimentation
Then 00 Experimentation points = 0% Experimentation
If the Resources qualities = 500
Then 10 Experimentation points = 50% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4) + (Eng/Dom 4)
Then 09 Experimentation points = 45% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4) + (Eng/Dom 3)
Then 08 Experimentation points = 40% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4) + (Eng/Dom 2)
Then 07 Experimentation points = 35% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4) + (Eng/Dom 1)
Then 06 Experimentation points = 30% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 4)
Then 05 Experimentation points = 25% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 3)
Then 04 Experimentation points = 20% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 2)
Then 03 Experimentation points = 15% Experimentation ---------- (Eng/Dom 1)
Then 02 Experimentation points = 10% Experimentation ---------- Novice Artisan
Then 01 Experimentation points = 5% Experimentation
Then 00 Experimentation points = 0% Experimentation
Important to note, that since we do not recieve any additional Experimentation points in our Master Box, noone has to reach Master Artisan to make our best stuff.
All they have to do is take up both Engineering 4 and Domestic Arts 4, and they get the entire 10 Experimentation points.
.
Whrlwnd13
Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:02 am
#7
Guruweaver wrote:
However, this will give master crafters more of an advantage over less skilled crafters, as they have more experimentation points to use, and will be more likely to produce an item with maximum attributes.
EpiFett wrote:
Important to note, that since we do not recieve any additional Experimentation points in our Master Box, noone has to reach Master Artisan to make our best stuff.
All they have to do is take up both Engineering 4 and Domestic Arts 4, and they get the entire 10 Experimentation points.
EpiFett wrote:
Important to note, that since we do not recieve any additional Experimentation points in our Master Box, noone has to reach Master Artisan to make our best stuff.
All they have to do is take up both Engineering 4 and Domestic Arts 4, and they get the entire 10 Experimentation points.
Obviously then, the new system will not givethe intended result.It won't give an advantagefor having higher skill level.Back to the drawing board.
RiskinMons
Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:14 am
#8
If that is indeed the effect the change will have how is that an enhancement to to experimentation system? As a WS there are loads of schematics that required specific resources which can only spawn with rubbish stats, ie Republic blaster is 50/50 cond/OQ and requires Plumbum iron which cannot have cond over 100. Currently that means it takes me about5 experimentation points to max out the damage at ~55% leaving me 5 points to put into ham costs. If the the new change works in the way suggested it will now take me all 10 points to max out the damage at 55% leaving me no points for anything else!?
If that's correct it sounds like a big step backwards to me that is going to really annoy a lot of crafters 
Personally I'm hoping that thatparagraph will get some further dev explaination though because it's not exactly clear is it 
PadreBook
Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:46 am
#9
RiskinMons wrote:If that is indeed the effect the change will have how is that an enhancement to to experimentation system? As a WS there are loads of schematics that required specific resources which can only spawn with rubbish stats, ie Republic blaster is 50/50 cond/OQ and requires Plumbum iron which cannot have cond over 100. Currently that means it takes me about5 experimentation points to max out the damage at ~55% leaving me 5 points to put into ham costs. If the the new change works in the way suggested it will now take me all 10 points to max out the damage at 55% leaving me no points for anything else!?
If that's correct it sounds like a big step backwards to me that is going to really annoy a lot of crafters
Personally I'm hoping that thatparagraph will get some further dev explaination though because it's not exactly clear is it
Yep, exactamundo! Better refresh the memory of the weaponsmiths that brought that up before when we had this discussion a few months ago, the last time they tried to spring it on us.
Padre
Guruweaver
Fri Feb 20, 2004 9:31 am
#10
Indeed. I'm kinda fuzzy on this too. I will be posting a request for clarification, as I hope the elite crafting correspondents will be.
As soon as the initial code drop is on TC, I'll post testing results. I hope that those of you on TC will do the same to give us better data.
Take care!
As soon as the initial code drop is on TC, I'll post testing results. I hope that those of you on TC will do the same to give us better data.
Take care!
JimerLins
Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:11 pm
#11
Guruweaver wrote:
Indeed. I'm kinda fuzzy on this too. I will be posting a request for clarification, as I hope the elite crafting correspondents will be.
As soon as the initial code drop is on TC, I'll post testing results. I hope that those of you on TC will do the same to give us better data.
Take care!
Don't just ask for clarification; that never gets anything but more confusing answers. Ask for a scenario, WITH EXAMPLES AND FIGURES that will demonstrate exactly what affect is being discussed.
If they can't provide that, they shouldn't be making the changes anyway. I'm sick of getting half-assed explanations that never mean anything, followed by more confusing half-assed throwaway paragraphs. Give us some real, hard facts. That's what we want.
Personally, if these things are the way I'm reading them, I'll be bagging all of my crafting, because if I have to spend all my points just to get where I get with half of them now, **edit** it.
Soar
Sun Feb 22, 2004 11:47 pm
#12
I some questions about this experimentation thing.
What the hell kinda explanation is that?
Is TH deliberatly trying to be vague?
Is it really that hard to write a clear, easy to understand outline?
Why is every exlanation of game mechanics always look like this?
Why do we players have to pour over things like these and then finally make a guess at what is being said?
Did TH actaully understand it himself before posting?
"Crafting experimentation has been enhanced so that the amount of change that each experimentation point will affect an item attribute will now be calculated by the maximum value for the item."
"Enhanced" - So this means its going to be better right?
"maximum value for the item" - What? The maximum value with perfect resources? The maximum value with the resoruces we are actually using? The maximum value calculated using the maximum quality possible with the resources we are using instead of just 1000 flat for all? ...and how about things like CD for polymer?
"Therefore, regardless of the quality of resources used, each experimentation point will affect the attribute by the same amount." - Ok, so this says the attribute will change a set amount per point with out considering what resoruces you use, eg. 1 exp point = +5 damage no matter what resources are plugged in to begin with. I can't guess at any other meaning for this.
"upon which a resource attribute is allowed to be experimented" - As far as I know we can't experiment on resource attributes, but I sure as heck would like to experiment the CD of my current plumbum up a bit more
"Now, the maximum value upon which a resource attribute is allowed to be experimented is affected by the quality of resources used."- I'm guessing by "resource attribute" he means "item attribute"(ie. one of those lines in your experimentation window that you stuff points into). Then going by the previous sentence each exp point is worth a set increase (eg. damage +5), this would have to mean the number of points we can use on one attribute would be limited by the quality of the resource. Eg. if you have a combined resouce quality of 500 you might only get 5 spaces to put points into, if you have 900 quality you might get 9 spaces.
"This will have a much more noticeable effect on the crafting experimentation process, making it more interesting, challenging and easier to understand." - ......riiiiiiiiiiiight.
"This will noticeably reduce the effectiveness of experimenting with low quality resources by all players." - Hang on TH, didnt you say "Therefore, regardless of the quality of resources used, each experimentation point will affect the attribute by the same amount."
"However, this will give master crafters more of an advantage over less skilled crafters, as they have more experimentation points to use, and will be more likely to produce an item with maximum attributes."
I don't know, it sounds an awful lot like the current system really, really badly explained. Atm each great success exp point is worth 7% increase and the number of points we can put in a single line is limited by the quality of our resources. I think here TH is saying that the effect of each point with no longer be a set percentage (eg 7%), but instead a set increase in the actual item stat value (eg +5 damage). So if this new system is better of not will depend on if that set stat increase if begger or smaller than the increase we see for our current 7%.
This aside, it still doesnt say how non-exsistant stats will be handled (no CD on polymer).
Someone else want to have a go at this one? I give up.
-Soar
What the hell kinda explanation is that?
Is TH deliberatly trying to be vague?
Is it really that hard to write a clear, easy to understand outline?
Why is every exlanation of game mechanics always look like this?
Why do we players have to pour over things like these and then finally make a guess at what is being said?
Did TH actaully understand it himself before posting?
"Crafting experimentation has been enhanced so that the amount of change that each experimentation point will affect an item attribute will now be calculated by the maximum value for the item."
"Enhanced" - So this means its going to be better right?
"maximum value for the item" - What? The maximum value with perfect resources? The maximum value with the resoruces we are actually using? The maximum value calculated using the maximum quality possible with the resources we are using instead of just 1000 flat for all? ...and how about things like CD for polymer?
"Therefore, regardless of the quality of resources used, each experimentation point will affect the attribute by the same amount." - Ok, so this says the attribute will change a set amount per point with out considering what resoruces you use, eg. 1 exp point = +5 damage no matter what resources are plugged in to begin with. I can't guess at any other meaning for this.
"upon which a resource attribute is allowed to be experimented" - As far as I know we can't experiment on resource attributes, but I sure as heck would like to experiment the CD of my current plumbum up a bit more
"Now, the maximum value upon which a resource attribute is allowed to be experimented is affected by the quality of resources used."- I'm guessing by "resource attribute" he means "item attribute"(ie. one of those lines in your experimentation window that you stuff points into). Then going by the previous sentence each exp point is worth a set increase (eg. damage +5), this would have to mean the number of points we can use on one attribute would be limited by the quality of the resource. Eg. if you have a combined resouce quality of 500 you might only get 5 spaces to put points into, if you have 900 quality you might get 9 spaces.
"This will have a much more noticeable effect on the crafting experimentation process, making it more interesting, challenging and easier to understand." - ......riiiiiiiiiiiight.
"This will noticeably reduce the effectiveness of experimenting with low quality resources by all players." - Hang on TH, didnt you say "Therefore, regardless of the quality of resources used, each experimentation point will affect the attribute by the same amount."
"However, this will give master crafters more of an advantage over less skilled crafters, as they have more experimentation points to use, and will be more likely to produce an item with maximum attributes."
I don't know, it sounds an awful lot like the current system really, really badly explained. Atm each great success exp point is worth 7% increase and the number of points we can put in a single line is limited by the quality of our resources. I think here TH is saying that the effect of each point with no longer be a set percentage (eg 7%), but instead a set increase in the actual item stat value (eg +5 damage). So if this new system is better of not will depend on if that set stat increase if begger or smaller than the increase we see for our current 7%.
This aside, it still doesnt say how non-exsistant stats will be handled (no CD on polymer).
Someone else want to have a go at this one? I give up.
-Soar
cronus00
Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:11 am
#13
From what I gather so far and understand.. It looks like a NERF to crafting.. Result is you'll have to burn more experimental points on lower quality resources to get max result when in the past you didn't have to.. Further hurting the master and virtually crippling the novice all together..
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