Artisan Archive
Thread: Using the *wrong* resources?
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ShivKatal
Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:20 pm
#1
Some schematics has very general material requirements. All materials have OQ, but some materials that can be used have NO rating for a quality listed as important to the final product.
For example, lubricating oil can be used for inert petro, but has only 2 stats. It doesn't have SR UT or MA like polymer does. Bone is an organic, but has no flavor or PE.
If some quality of the final product depends on a stat, but you use a resource that does not have that stat, how is it treated?
1. Is it treated as having a stat value of 0
2. Is that material is simply left out of the equation, and just the stats of other materials used?
I'm sure this has been asked before, but I have searched high and low for a guide or FAQ that has an answer but to no avail. Thanks in advance.
For example, lubricating oil can be used for inert petro, but has only 2 stats. It doesn't have SR UT or MA like polymer does. Bone is an organic, but has no flavor or PE.
If some quality of the final product depends on a stat, but you use a resource that does not have that stat, how is it treated?
1. Is it treated as having a stat value of 0
2. Is that material is simply left out of the equation, and just the stats of other materials used?
I'm sure this has been asked before, but I have searched high and low for a guide or FAQ that has an answer but to no avail. Thanks in advance.
Guruweaver
Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:33 pm
#2
ShivKatal wrote:
Some schematics has very general material requirements. All materials have OQ, but some materials that can be used have NO rating for a quality listed as important to the final product.
For example, lubricating oil can be used for inert petro, but has only 2 stats. It doesn't have SR UT or MA like polymer does. Bone is an organic, but has no flavor or PE.
If some quality of the final product depends on a stat, but you use a resource that does not have that stat, how is it treated?
1. Is it treated as having a stat value of 0
2. Is that material is simply left out of the equation, and just the stats of other materials used?
I'm sure this has been asked before, but I have searched high and low for a guide or FAQ that has an answer but to no avail. Thanks in advance.
Good question. As we are not actually able to see the 'rolls' in combines and such, this is speculation, but testing has revealed that using a resource missing the stat or stats needed by the schematic does not effect the outcome. Meaning, option 2 above.
Take care,
Guru
Kaiva
Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:34 pm
#3
I believe it is concidered to be 1000 in the stats it does not have, or it is removed from the equation. I've experimented a few times with using a 700 OQ polymer and a lub oil with a 999 CO and 800 OQ copper to make a CDEF. Apparently, Lub oil made a better product after the 5 times of using each to full experimentation making sure they're all Great Successes. I think I'm the only artisan on Eclipse who bothers to determine game formulae. 
Kaiva
Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:41 pm
#4
Wait, its wasnt a CDEF, it was something in the weaponsmith tree... a pistol barrel?
sciguyCO
Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:19 pm
#5
I've done some playing around, and along with a really bright guy in the chef forum, have determined that if a resource is missing a stat, than that resource slot is ignored for whatever calculations use that stat.
For example, bofa treats require 3 organic and 8 cereal. The buff power of the treats is determined by 66% PE, 33% OQ. Since it only asks for "organic", you can use hide or bone in that slot, neither of which have PE.
Here's a basic breakdown of how the stats are combined for the max experimental percentage:
Step 1) First, for each stat a "weighted average" is done, using both the stat value, and the number of units of that stack. For each slot, if the resource has the stat you multiply the number of units by the stat value. Then you add all those numbers up, and divide by the total number of resource units in the itemthat have the stat.
So for the bofa treats,we'lluse 800OQ 800 PErice and 500 OQ/600PE meat in one, and replace the meat with 900 OQ hide in the other:
Bofa 1:
Weighted OQ = ( 800 * 8 + 500 * 3 ) / 11 = 718 (decimals get stripped off as far as I can tell).
Weighted PE = ( 800 * 8 + 600 * 3 ) / 11 = 745
Bofa 2:
Weighted OQ = ( 800 * 8 + 900 * 3 ) / 11 = 827
Weighted PE = ( 800 * 8 ) / 8 = 800
For the weighted PE, the hide doesn't contribute, so it just comes out the same as the PE of the rice.
Step 2)
The weighted stats are added together weighted by the stat percentages given in the schematic. The max you can experiment to is 1/10th of this combination:
Bofa 1:
Final Nutrition = ( 718 * 0.33 + 745 * 0.66 ) / 10 = 72
Bofa 2:
Final Nutrition = ( 727 * 0.33 + 800 * 0.66 ) / 10 = 76
So a mediocre meat with both stats comes out worse than a really good hide missing PE.
Final note:
If every resource used in the item is missing one of the required stats, than that weighted stat is a zero, which will make the final results worse. There is a chef drink Garrmorl that uses only hide and bone (it's a wookiee thing), and the buff value is determined by the same 66%PE/33%OQ calculation as bofa treats. Because hide and bone do not have PE, and there's no other resource to contribute that stat, this drink is capped at 33% (and that requires 1000 OQ hide and bone).
ShivKatal
Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:13 pm
#6
Just wanted to thank you all for this information.
Great work sciguyCO!
I'd like to request the addition of this information to general Artisan FAQs.
Great work sciguyCO!
I'd like to request the addition of this information to general Artisan FAQs.
Marjaliisa
Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:06 am
#7
Hmmm...
It says in the crafting advanced guide (http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=Crafting%20Chapter%201):
"As you can see, the object [CDEF pistol] I'm making is affected by both Decay Resistance and Conductivity. If you recall the Decay Resistance for the Carbonate Ore I sampled was 619. That's not a bad number, though it could be higher. Perhaps I could sample some more and find a resource that had a Decay Resistance in the 900's. That would be a much better resource for building this object.
The other attribute that affects this item is Conductivity. Now you've probably noticed that the Carbonate Ore I sampled doesn't have an attribute called Conductivity. That means, the effective Conductivity of the resource I sampled is 0. That's bad. That's really bad. It means that for the item attribute that needs Conductivity, I'll gain nothing for making this object with the resource I have. "
Tirgwystraff
Mon Sep 06, 2004 4:38 am
#8
It may be different for different professions. For armorsmithing, it is definitely : if stat is usuable, and you use a resource that doesn't have it, it's treated as a zero ( BAD). If the resource called for doesn't have a particular stat available, then it is ignored.
Example: Maberi armor. In the final combine, you have inert petro called for. Since polymer has all 4 items called for, it's a great inert. DO NOT USE LUBE OIL. Lube oil doesn't have SR, UT, or MALL. That lube oil will have to treat all missing stats as a zero, making a garbage piece of armor, where the ham, stats, and condition suffer. When it is not possible for that category to have that stat, it is ignored.
Examples, crafting tools- no chemical has conductivity, so it's ignored, only the conductivity of your metal is used. If it were zeroed out, +15 crafting tools would not be possible It's tied directly to the con of your metal.
It's tied directly to the con of your metal.Final combine composite. Tied for being the largest resource used ( with intrusive ore), is solid petro. Since no solid petro can have SR or MALL, those stats are ignored.
In weaponsmithing, there is a reason that weaponsmiths don't care what the OQ is known solid petro class 3. It doesn't have SR, so no other stat matters, it goes strictly off your other resources.
Chef experimentation has been bugged from implementation. BE does the same thing. You cannot rely on what they tell you you need. Testing has shown OQ is weighted more than they say for BE. I was a chef before they fixed the profession. Even then we noticed you couldn't rely on the listed qualities. DR was considered in some schematics, where it wasn't even called for, etc....
Psycho_Man
Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:02 pm
#9
Your crafting tool example isn't entirely correct. Yes, chem doesn't have conductivity, so any old chem will work for it. But part of the crafting tool says to use mineral. Ore does not have conductivity, so I use it in that spot and can craft my 14.94 tools. So it is not zeroing it out, it's just ignoring it as the Chef pointed out.
Lube oil is the magic ingredient for architects. We require HR,SR,UT for making harvesters. Lube oil has none of them, so it just gets ignored in the calculations. Armorsmith might be different, but architect and artisan just ignore that resource if the stats are missing and divide only by the resources that do have those stats.
Lube oil is the magic ingredient for architects. We require HR,SR,UT for making harvesters. Lube oil has none of them, so it just gets ignored in the calculations. Armorsmith might be different, but architect and artisan just ignore that resource if the stats are missing and divide only by the resources that do have those stats.
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