Artisan Archive
Thread: Question of the day 7-26-03
Who would support more comsumable items? By this I mean comsumable items that a player MUST have. Food and drink that is not optional. Ammo and power for weapons etc...
Anyone have any other ideas for items that could be added to this list to keep repeat business alive and to bring more people to crafters? How about new services that a crafter could provide. Any ideas?
I vote for changes that would allow for considerable variation in important characteristics due to materials and experience but that would not be required for basic game play.
One possibility... (This may actually exist in the game but I don't know about it)personal performance powerupsthat have a withdrawl period paid in lost capability,requiremultiple characteristics of resources,and who'sperformance canbe modified by experimentation. They could be available on the DOM A tree which seems to get less interest than the surveying and engineering.
A second possibility to invigorate crafting --Skills that could alter the requirements for various products. This could use the same mechanisms as the regular crafting activity but with added experimentation options that change the underlying schematics. The result would be a new, locally maintained schematic that theexperimenter could retain, use over again, replicate and trade to other artisans.
The background... not for the faint of heart 
Adding consumable requirements will add more dimension to the economy. But if they are commodities -- with little variation due to experience and little dependence on characteristics of the underlying components -- they will also lead quickly to the creation of factory based systems that are the provence of advanced players.
If the goal is to support small crafters then consumables will have to be structured to allownew artisan'scapabilities to make a difference to the consumer. That may not be an easy thing to do.
Power-ups are an example of something that works. They are reasonably well balanced between dependence on materials and on experimental capability. While finding really good materials is time consuming but even a novice can do it. That offsets some of the advantage of more experienced artisans and gives even a new person a chance to make a sale. A similar balance would have to be created for any consumable that would help small small crafters.
If the goal is to create a major market then the balance should be tipped the other way.
In either case, adding required consumables puts a tax on every player. It can't be too heavy or it will drive people away from the game as a whole.
Probably the best way to keep repeat business for artisans is to make it so weapons, armor, and other items decay at a much faster rate. I had a CDEF carbine I made myself, and used it for about two weeks straight, and by that time it had only gone from its maximum 1000 rating to 680. 320 points in two weeks is barely anything, because usually you'll get enough credits to buy something better before the gun runs completely out.
I know this isn't really a consumable situation, but it will increase business for the artisans. We could charge to repair weapons these items, or simply sell them a new one.
Another way to increase business would be to have it where powerups for weapons make them decay faster. When using something that gives +100% max/min damage, it should hurt the weapon's structure a lot more than one that's +5% max/min damage. This way, the customers would be coming back not only for those great powerups, but to have their equipment repaired when it decays from too much use.
One last option that we could do is to make ammunition requirements for ranged weapons.The artisan would then be an essential part of combat, as you would need ammo for your gun. Plus, the lower level artisans would be able to craft the ammo clipsas well,giving them abetter edge for the market since everyone would need them. After an artisan becomes an advanced career class, they could lose the ammo clip schematic, and weaponsmiths would gain the ability to make better ones, but would have to charge a higher price for them.
Weapons do decay. I think they are fine. They aren't supposed to be disposible. They should probably rework the weapon certs for brawler and markmen, but that isn't our problem.
Clothing needs to decay, so do tools. Tools can decay like weapons do. Clothes probably just need to decay over time. Everything that players use needs to decay. Doesn't have to do it super fast, but eventually people need to buy new or the economy can't work. Capital items have maintence so they don't need to decay.
The artisan role in the economy is to provide the little hardware items. Yes we can make bone armor and CDEF weapons and if you are a good artisan you can make things that rival or even surpass a lot of elite stuff at way lower cost. Our niche should not be to compete with the elite crafters though. We should either support them with components for their items or support the items they make such as repair tools etc.
A lot of our stuff we make is really cheap and low margin. Like a droid battery or a weapon repair tool or even powerups. They don't cost much, so we need to produce mass amounts of them to make the same money as a weaponcrafter would make on one weapon.
I think powerups should be a bit more predictable. Scopes should do one thing. Stocks another. We also need to see what we are experimenting on. Get the word out that these powerups make weapons more powerful. I can't believe all the people I meet that don't even know what they do.
If furniture and things in houses decayed slowly over time we could make furniture repair tools.
Maybe there should be powerups for food and clothes in the domestic line. The food we make is very newbie. Sure its semi useful but again don't want to compete with chefs or tailors. Food hasn't had much of a chance to catch on yet. Buffs are a part of most games, and people haven't even begun to see the benefits of this line yet.
Maybe pets need to eat. We could make general pet food or something.
In general we should make fairly simple items that support the greater economy.
batteries, powerups. I think most crafters ignore food&drink cause
they don't make you mega rich or give you mega xp.
Consumables that are required is a tremendously bad idea for reasons
Cpark said. It would force artisans to grind, but actually a few uber
players would get richer selling factory crates of the req consumalbes
and most people would just have to endure a pointless activity.
More optional consumables are a good idea, but won't make people
happy. Most people will complain cause they won't be the get rich /
get xp schemes they hope for.
I would rather see the really broken things fixed before this.
Deteroation - Everthing needs to deterioate. I believe cloths and
droids don't (bug?) homes, harvesters, tools *everything* should
deterioate over time. Don't know really pay attention to
armor/weapons much. Just seemed like good business to avoid the horde
of grinders and find my own niche. But a/the (huge problem with armor
at least bone) is there is way too much supply and this is because it
gives insane xp compared to other things. Too late to fix that
really. Even I, the anti-grinder have succumbed to it's evil lure and
made a dozen or so suits.
There is demand for the existing consumables.
My food&drinks sell great on the bazaar. Never last more than a day or
two. I experiment each item to the max and put my mark (Viz Vicutals)
on each one. I like to think I have a name for myself as a quality
dealer but I think reality is I'm almost the only dealer. I also eat
my own stuff so I can survey for longer.
I started with tea, bofa wafers, and something else I've forgotten
sold for 80-120cr.
Caf and Aitha sell great so does K-18 rations. I've just recently got
dom IV. Still experientmenting with pricing and demand but I think my
max price will be 320-420.
Those prices make me money so I'm happy. (2cr per resource is my avr cost)
Actually, I'm kind of stunned how much some people are willing to pay for
consumables actually. esp a drink that is gone in a couple min. Sell like
hotcakes, what do I know.
If droids weren't so broke more people might buy batteries. Still, I've
sold a few and gotten requests for more.
What's up with power ups. They *are* the "power cells" for
weapons. Are they broke? People make them and people buy them. So
something must be going on. Too busy/successfull doing other stuff to
ever have a look. ( I use unarmed )
I've never not sold something I listed on the bazaar. AFAIR nothing
lasted for more than 3 days. I never use auction. I don't sell at
insane prices.
[btw Selling stimpacks funded my early career. Being able to heal your
action is great for surveying. Every miner should get medic, you can
allways get back the skill points if you need them.]
[Cpark you described spice which is made by smugglers]
I wish I could list more than 25 items, (might make merchant line more worthwile if it allowed that hint hint) I can't logon and add items often enough to keep up with demand.
Just to repeat myself, cause it is such a bad idea. Required
consumables wrong! Bad correspondent, no cookie for you
They should add another Artisan crafted armor to the game with a "Starwars Solder" style look ( like Imp Army Troopers or the first Reb troops we see in Episode IV, but not faction ). It could be called "Fiberplast Armor" or something, offer minimum protection and have three or four helmet styles. It would decay very quickly, but be very easy to repair and manufacture.
I mean, it's Starwars. What's with all the bone armor?
I totally support this idea. In order to have a truly sucessful economy, these items need to deteriote rather quickly. Food and drink should be a requirment, with higher quality foods lasting for longer periods of times. Guns should slowly degenerate over time and require a person with the skill to build that weapon repair it. If we don't do something soon, the markets will become flooded and the artisan profession worthless.
And while your at it....fix the reosurce sampling, its to tedious and slow. I don't have 500 hours a month to play this game...and I don't wanna kill things, I do that in planetside.
Before making more consumables that only the best artisans will get money for why not enforce schematic revocation and divide up the artisan (and other elite artisan professions) into seperate professions so that every artisan will not be able to do everything himself. This will allow more horizontal sales and teamed with schematic revocation could balance out the economy overall. I love the idea of more consumables but I think without schematic revocation it will be not have any bearing on the economy.
Another option we have besides more consumables would be to have more items decay such as clothing, furniture, tools, etc. These could also be based on usage decay. And if we really need items to turnover faster we can increase the decay multiplier for those items.
However, one of the drawbacks of more consumables is that it will detract from the game. I know that as artisans we are used to tending to our harvesters and other structures but otherprofessions might not be so interested in that type of play. With every additional consumable we add it will cut into someone's playing time--they will need to take time out to resupply whatever was consumed.
There is only one consumeable that Artisans (low level, high level, every single skill tree) really care about, and that is materials. Thus is born the concept of Material Processing Schematics. I'm too lazy to re-format this, so please view it at this link:
http://www.ronsavagesolutions.com/~bushwa/SWG/SWG_Crafting.htm
Bushwa