Artisan Archive

Thread: Interplanetary Survey Droids ( Minor Rant )

After5CST
Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:34 am
#1

New artisan here, trying to build a resource base for my Droid Engineer spouse. The point is at the bottom in bold, if you don't want to read the narrative.

After spotting her a fair amount of cash for grinding Engineer, more cash for me to grind Master Artisan, a fair amount of reading to learn the basics of artisan, figuring out how to survey, plant harversters and the whole supply chain background, I'm finally ready to go. Even sold a few Swoops on the bazaar for a bit of self-gratification as a "honest-to-goodness" crafter that actually sold something ( granted, after the above expenses, at a severe loss of a couple mil, but everyone's got to start somewhere ).

Spouse: I need X, Y, and Z to make droid Q that I want to make.
Me: OK, sounds good. Let's go find some!

So, we spend the better part of a full day planet hopping, doing quick surveys ( still don't quite understand if the resource list on planet is for that particular region, the planet, or the entire galaxy ), resource vendor hunting, and placing harvesters. At the end of the day, we've accumulated enough resources ( or harvesters ) to actually make Arakyds, one item on her wish list. Mission accomplished, sort of.

Spouse: I still need W to make droid R that I want to make.
Me: OK, sounds good. Let's look through the notes and go find some!

Unfortunately, no luck. No vendors carried W, we didn't find in anywhere on the scanners, so apparently we're at a dead end. Still no problem, or so I thought.

Me: We'll have to start scanning planets regularly until some W pops up.
Spouse: WHAT?!?!? We spent a full day just finding the last batch, there's no way we have time to do this every couple of days...
Me: Well, let me do some research ( crawls off to the web, including SWGCraft )

... time passes ...

Me: OK, I think I have a solution. We can use Survey Droids to do the planet hunting for us. Easy.
Spouse: Great, I love making droids.

... Spouse goes to work looking through resources, notes, and vendors, to find out what we still need ...

Spouse: Um, we can get everything we need for ISDs except for Carbonite Steel.
Me: (Checks SWGCraft for confirmation )
Me: That's bad. If we had survey droids, we could use them to know when Carbonite spawns, so we could make survey droids, so we could know when we could harvest resources, so we could (finally) make droid R.

Both: *Throw hands up in frustration*


My point?

Interplanetary Survey Droids are a basic item to assist people -- particularly new artisans, who don't have an extensive resource base -- to find the resources they need. They should NOT require an extremely specific component ( particularly an uncommon one)!

Rant done, feel better. Still, stuff like this goes a long way towards lessening my enjoyment. If I want frustration, I'll ask my son to clean up his toys.
JeCy
Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:52 am
#2

check some reource dealers.. or post on the boards the stuff they use in not all that rare.


Je'Cy
After5CST
Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:05 am
#3

Thanks for the advice. I'll post in the trade forums and see if anyone responds.

As noted above, my spouse and I spent a full day, going planet-to-planet, visiting every resource vendor we could find. Since it's not a common component, most vendors don't stock it (none that we could find). At any price. Of any quality, high or low. In any quantity, high or low. According to SWGCraft it hasn't spawned in at least 60 days ( doubtful, so I'll assume SWGCraft is out of date ).

If I have to go to the forums to find a component, then the game is -- IMO -- broken. Particularly a specific component needed to build something to help people find components.

If this were a schematic for "uber elite weapon 917", I would have no complaints about having stringent requirements for the item. But it's not: it's a device to help you find things, and a not-very-useful one at that, according to the boards. And, based on the value it will have in the galactic scheme of things ( zero, except for a fraction of droid engineers, who are a fraction of the artisan population, who are a fraction of the general population ), there's no reason I can see that a ISD should require Carbonite steel, instead of just steel.

It's not the rant it would be if Mineral Survey Devices were to require a specific component ( say, for example, Carbonite Steel instead of just "Metal" ). Still, it suffers from the same problem on a smaller scope.
SmokingFrog
Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:55 pm
#4

I'm a Master DE, but I discourage the use of the ISD's by customers - particularly if you have JTL enabled. Resource listing for a given tool is valid for the entire planet you're on, so the easiest way to bypass the ISD is to hop into a StarPort, open your survey tool and take note of what shows up. You can do all 11 planets in about 20-25 minutes tops once you have the mechanics down...which is way faster (and cheaper) than survey droids. The best part is once you find what you're looking for, you're already there to set up harvesters...and you can verify the resource stats on the spot (something that survey droids cannot do).



All Chilastra winnings can be delivered to any vendor at MashMart
Sanctum Malleus, Talus (2412 -3556)
After5CST
Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:11 pm
#5

Thank you for the confirmation of the planet-wide use of the survey tools.

I was interested because it seemed faster to use ISDs -- and also it's my understanding the emails can be easily dumped to disk and sent to SWGCraft to keep the stats updated. If doing it by hand is faster (and cheaper) than using the droids, then the droids are little more than another little broken idea in SWG.

Thanks.
Saera
Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:21 pm
#6






After5CST wrote:
Thank you for the confirmation of the planet-wide use of the survey tools.

I was interested because it seemed faster to use ISDs -- and also it's my understanding the emails can be easily dumped to disk and sent to SWGCraft to keep the stats updated. If doing it by hand is faster (and cheaper) than using the droids, then the droids are little more than another little broken idea in SWG.

Thanks.





The other thing I'm not sure you are aware of, is that it can take like an hour, per planet before you get the email. Not to mention, the droid only tells you what resource type you select.. ie flora, mineral, chemical etc. It doesn't list all types per planet. Also, it not only consumes the droid, but also a survey tool for the resource type you selected.


They are neat to mess with if you have the ability to make them I guess.. I tried them when they first came out but I wasn't horribly impressed myself. If you have JTL, and a ship, I think it'd just be easier to travel to each planet.. you don't have to leave the starport area, so you aren't risking yourself.. unless of course you want to sample for quality or drop harvies somewhere





L'yka Esce
Master Tailor - Master Artisan - Master Merchant
L'yka Fashions & Artisan Goodies
5305 -4315 Moenia Naboo
Ahazi



Hordakka
Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:00 am
#7

I know this may not be an option and that your mainly blowing off steam but I am having the same problem tracking resources since SWGcraft seems a little behind on creature resources. I asked the community if they new of any good meat spawns on my server (Shadowfire) and the reply I got was get a 30K resource kit, you can look at it and it will list all present spawns AND the stats on the spawns. This item cost between 3-5 mil so like I said it may not be an option. If your on Shadowfire throw me a tell I have a bunch of survey driods I accidently bought clogging up my inventory. Oh and the best part is that YOU have to equipt the survey droid with a survey device you can't just send it off and set it to collect all info, and the survey device gets destroyed too.



Hordakka Synn
JeCy
Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:29 am
#8

You are obviously NOT a miner if you think its easier to hop to every planet and track resources..


1, SWGcraft is nearly always outta date. Even on good servers where people update it nearly daily i find stuff that has not hit craft on just about every outting.


2, it usually cuts down my planet hops from all 10 (you cant min on kash) to just 3. which translates in to a good 20-30 mins saved.


3, no idea how you can suvery and check reasources in 20 mins on all planets. thats spending 2 mins per which is opening a survey tool NOT checking what stats are.. unless you are extremly lucky and its right at the starport and only one thing shifted. It takes 30 secs per sample baring fails. you are not going to check 3-4 resources and get in and out in 2 mins.. it just aint happening.


4, with survey drones.. its possible to cut your survey time to 20-30 mins cuase you know exactly where to go and what you are looking for before you leave. knew kammaris on tat, Skevon on yavin, fiberplast and ditianium copper on dant. You are saving a good 3-5 mins per planet between zoning and checking on your tools


5, Survey drones give you a complete list that you can compare with daily or bi-daily to see what exacaly has shifted. its bar none the best way to track resources


6, I sell these things for 15k a crate. thats a week worth of checking for 15k. (your a crafter make your own crates of survey tools) Hmm thats 3k per check i dont know where your from but 3k isnt crap for credits.. even if your checking all 4 thats only 12k which most crafters can make in a single sale.


7, If your just looking for a single resource to make your one thing you cant make yet.. Sure maybe JTL will only take you 20 mins but it sure aint faster or cheaper. In that time you could have done a mission, Crafted some items to sell, hung out in a cantina (granted this doesnt make money but its better than spending 20 mins zoning in and out) or planed your day. Soo in no way is it faster or cheaper for time spent.


8, Even if your out just looking for one thing.. and you find the resource your looking for, A, there might be a better one of the same class that spawned it the same shift and is only on one planet and you wont know it with out checking every other planet first. or B, some planets are much more miner freindly soo if you happen to find the resource on corrlia which is a PIA to set up on and the same thing is on naboo which a miners dream. Dont take a Starship engineer to figure out which planet im droping on.


9,, If you are out survying just looking for one resoursce and skiping everything else there lys your main problem as a crafter. You should always be checking what stats are on anything new. You never know when something great is gonig to show up that will help in making your product. Most crafters have a list of 20-30 things they need. Also new things are added to crafting from time to time. Soo when there is nothing good you need atm but there is an incredible Klesh copper out there why not drop a harvester or 2 or 5 on it and get some. That way when they make Kelsh copper a needed resource for something you are not complaining that you cant find any cause you have some stashed away. Even as a DE there are things you could need in the future that are very rare. like say tollium gas(detonation modules, or a very nice copper (combat modules), or lidum ore (lvl 6 storage modules) All of these are 10 times rarer than the stuff you need to make interplanetary droids. Soo when you decide to expand to crafting other things you now have to pay through the nose to pick up that stuff if there is even any around. There are some reousrces that are super rare.. and to find them good is even rarer. I know of many resources that have been all but crap all but 2-3 times since luanch ! (tollium gas is one) Thats a rare resource. The carbonite steel and which gem i forget off the top of my head.. are around alot and are good alot. 2 things that dont classify a resource as rare. And trust me you will be kicking yourself for not mining it when it was around but you where soo focused on one thing you skiped 3 others you could have had while you waited.


10,, you can speed up the droids by XP soo you can get 10 uses and takes about 30 mins or soo to get the report back which is basically no time to wait.. if you launch um when you log in by the time you read some mail. talk to a couple freinds maybe check your vendor stock or make a couple things, survey outside your door.. or what ever they are backsoo the wait time is really a non issue.



Great resource vaults are what seperates the good crafters from the bad ones. You dont need to drop 20 harvesters on every good resource. Even a small miner/crafter can drop even 1 or 2 heavies on something and pick up 100-200k to save for that rainiy day. You dont need to be a high volume crafter to be consitered one of the best. Just make great product and everything else falls into place.


one last thing.. just needing to use a forum doesnt mean its broke. there are lots of ways to find resources you need.


1, Contact other crafters, Shipwrights, armorers, WS are the most relaible with large stocks. You will make some crafter freinds, share tips about what has shifted. (which helps a ton in tracking stuff) I regularly get tips from freinds on new stuff or WP's or what ever. All this helps a ton, saves time and you can meet some great new freinds.


2, Contact resource dealers that have a wide selction on there vendors, they are more than likely holding lots of stuff that doesnt make it onto there vendors to sell at a later date. (no good resource dealer packs there vendors with everything they own) Get to know the good miners, they are your freinds. They can keep on the look out for stuff, set stuff aside when they know your looking for something specific. Thats there gig, helping crafters get what they need, cant ever have too many contacts.


Hope this helps in your quest to find what you need.. happy trails


Je'Cy
TarsisDenai
Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:27 am
#9






JeCy wrote:

You are obviously NOT a miner if you think its easier to hop to every planet and track resources..


1, SWGcraft is nearly always outta date. Even on good servers where people update it nearly daily i find stuff that has not hit craft on just about every outting.


2, it usually cuts down my planet hops from all 10 (you cant min on kash) to just 3. which translates in to a good 20-30 mins saved.


3, no idea how you can suvery and check reasources in 20 mins on all planets. thats spending 2 mins per which is opening a survey tool NOT checking what stats are.. unless you are extremly lucky and its right at the starport and only one thing shifted. It takes 30 secs per sample baring fails. you are not going to check 3-4 resources and get in and out in 2 mins.. it just aint happening.


4, with survey drones.. its possible to cut your survey time to 20-30 mins cuase you know exactly where to go and what you are looking for before you leave. knew kammaris on tat, Skevon on yavin, fiberplast and ditianium copper on dant. You are saving a good 3-5 mins per planet between zoning and checking on your tools


5, Survey drones give you a complete list that you can compare with daily or bi-daily to see what exacaly has shifted. its bar none the best way to track resources


6, I sell these things for 15k a crate. thats a week worth of checking for 15k. (your a crafter make your own crates of survey tools) Hmm thats 3k per check i dont know where your from but 3k isnt crap for credits.. even if your checking all 4 thats only 12k which most crafters can make in a single sale.


7, If your just looking for a single resource to make your one thing you cant make yet.. Sure maybe JTL will only take you 20 mins but it sure aint faster or cheaper. In that time you could have done a mission, Crafted some items to sell, hung out in a cantina (granted this doesnt make money but its better than spending 20 mins zoning in and out) or planed your day. Soo in no way is it faster or cheaper for time spent.


8, Even if your out just looking for one thing.. and you find the resource your looking for, A, there might be a better one of the same class that spawned it the same shift and is only on one planet and you wont know it with out checking every other planet first. or B, some planets are much more miner freindly soo if you happen to find the resource on corrlia which is a PIA to set up on and the same thing is on naboo which a miners dream. Dont take a Starship engineer to figure out which planet im droping on.


9,, If you are out survying just looking for one resoursce and skiping everything else there lys your main problem as a crafter. You should always be checking what stats are on anything new. You never know when something great is gonig to show up that will help in making your product. Most crafters have a list of 20-30 things they need. Also new things are added to crafting from time to time. Soo when there is nothing good you need atm but there is an incredible Klesh copper out there why not drop a harvester or 2 or 5 on it and get some. That way when they make Kelsh copper a needed resource for something you are not complaining that you cant find any cause you have some stashed away. Even as a DE there are things you could need in the future that are very rare. like say tollium gas(detonation modules, or a very nice copper (combat modules), or lidum ore (lvl 6 storage modules) All of these are 10 times rarer than the stuff you need to make interplanetary droids. Soo when you decide to expand to crafting other things you now have to pay through the nose to pick up that stuff if there is even any around. There are some reousrces that are super rare.. and to find them good is even rarer. I know of many resources that have been all but crap all but 2-3 times since luanch ! (tollium gas is one) Thats a rare resource. The carbonite steel and which gem i forget off the top of my head.. are around alot and are good alot. 2 things that dont classify a resource as rare. And trust me you will be kicking yourself for not mining it when it was around but you where soo focused on one thing you skiped 3 others you could have had while you waited.


10,, you can speed up the droids by XP soo you can get 10 uses and takes about 30 mins or soo to get the report back which is basically no time to wait.. if you launch um when you log in by the time you read some mail. talk to a couple freinds maybe check your vendor stock or make a couple things, survey outside your door.. or what ever they are backsoo the wait time is really a non issue.



Great resource vaults are what seperates the good crafters from the bad ones. You dont need to drop 20 harvesters on every good resource. Even a small miner/crafter can drop even 1 or 2 heavies on something and pick up 100-200k to save for that rainiy day. You dont need to be a high volume crafter to be consitered one of the best. Just make great product and everything else falls into place.


one last thing.. just needing to use a forum doesnt mean its broke. there are lots of ways to find resources you need.


1, Contact other crafters, Shipwrights, armorers, WS are the most relaible with large stocks. You will make some crafter freinds, share tips about what has shifted. (which helps a ton in tracking stuff) I regularly get tips from freinds on new stuff or WP's or what ever. All this helps a ton, saves time and you can meet some great new freinds.


2, Contact resource dealers that have a wide selction on there vendors, they are more than likely holding lots of stuff that doesnt make it onto there vendors to sell at a later date. (no good resource dealer packs there vendors with everything they own) Get to know the good miners, they are your freinds. They can keep on the look out for stuff, set stuff aside when they know your looking for something specific. Thats there gig, helping crafters get what they need, cant ever have too many contacts.


Hope this helps in your quest to find what you need.. happy trails


Je'Cy




That's some good info.. Thanks for sharing.




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After5CST
Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:29 am
#10

Noted, and thanks for the info.

I currently don't have any time or money to pursue ISDs, because I ran across the current Bloodfin scramble for Dath. Fiberplast, and have sunk every penny I have in to harvies to get as much as I can out of the ground ( It's apparently quite good at the moment ). I figure I'll sell about half of it at the end to recoup my expenses ( I'm leveraged to the hilt, had to run some missions last night to pay for energy and maintenance to get them all running ), and keep half of it as a starter collection for future use.

I did get a "warm fuzzy" this morning when I went out to check my harvies, and a previously empty plain except for my Mediums is now swamped with heavies, so apparently I found a good spot nobody else had discovered yet. It makes me wonder if contract harvesting ( tell me what to find, I'll find it, tell you where I planted my harvies, and sell you some of the resources ) might be economically viable for me to build some kind of financial base.

The biggest problem I'm having ATM now ( besides my lack of ISDs to track trends ) is knowing what is "good". I understand that varies by profession and by product, but I have yet to find a general "hot list" of things to keep an eye out for. I never would have known the Dath Fiberplast was worth anything if it hadn't been for seeing people on the trade forums paying 8cpu for it, quantities unlimited.
Saera
Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:54 am
#11

Well, I am a crafter.. albiet I don't need uber resources being a Tailor, but I am also a Master Artisan who does require quality items. But after 3 years of SWG, if it's not on my home planet I don't care anymore, it's not worth the hassle to me As it stands, I have surveyed for resources quite extensively. I used to survey on several planets when I was guilded, included qualities to help out guild crafters, and I have updated SWGCraft for my planet more times than I can count. In my experience, ISD's are a waste of time... in the time it takes to get the answers, and then if there is something you are curious about, you HAVE to go to the planet anyways to sample it. So why waste the time with the ISD when in that hours time, you can go to the planet and sample too? If you are looking for a specific item, planet hopping, especially with JTL, is free and easier. You just hop to the planet, survey to see if what you want is there and if it is, sample it. You are right, it probably takes more than 20 mins, when I was out sampling for guildies it could take me hours, but I enjoyed, I loved to explore the planets..but this was of course before the CU


Each crafter is different, and will have different ways of doing things. In my opinion, as in for me, ISD's are a waste of time and money if you can not make them. That is my opinion, and from my 3 years of experience. If they work for you, that is great, at least someone is getting some use out of them


Also, SWGCraft is only as good as the people who support it. If you think it's behind or unaccurate, then HELP support it. Send them your stats, since you are spending time sampling anyways. Ahazi has been pretty accurate, there are several folks who consistently update it regularly.






L'yka Esce
Master Tailor - Master Artisan - Master Merchant
L'yka Fashions & Artisan Goodies
5305 -4315 Moenia Naboo
Ahazi



smg77
Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:46 pm
#12

Are you using the vendor search function of the bazaar terminals when you are looking for resources to buy or are you just going from vendor to vendor and hoping they have what you need?
After5CST
Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:59 pm
#13

Both. Actually, all three.

Search Bazaar open auctions, attempt to use Vendor Search at Bazaar, and hand-pick and visit vendors planet-by-planet. (This is one of the reason it takes so long). My experience has led me to believe that the vendor search... isn't 100%, to put it kindly. And half the time, when it lists a vendor, it gives a location in a town I can't find on the map anyway ( doesn't have a shuttle port or other such nonsense ).

It's no wonder it took Vader so long to find the Rebel bases in various locations. Best I can tell, about half the Imperial fleet was probably busy trying to figure out where to find HamFisted, Naboo or some other equally helpful township.

At this point, it doesn't really matter anyway. I've got every penny I own sunk into harvesters and power to pull out Dathomir Fiberplast ( OQ 997 or some such rot ), so even if I magically found a vendor I'd be out of luck to buy components I can't pull from the ground for some time, anyway.

I've resigned myself to the fact that I won't be able to accumulate enough HQ resources myself, while purchasing the ones I can't dig up, to be a viable artisan any time soon. Unfortunate, but seems to be true. At least I'm having fun running around like a chicken with its head cut off finding things to harvest.
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