Artisan Archive
Thread: shortage of real miners.. lot trade miners are totally outta hand..
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JeCy
Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:18 am
#1
since this new vendor system ive been browsing things finding out what prices are.. what there is not much of, what there is way to much ect..
well i decided to look up a specific iron that was in shift to see if any was forsale anywhere. well i decided to sort using minerals, i knew there would be a decent amount.. my guess was 1k-2k worth of seperate sales. Well to my surprise there was over 5k seperate lots and over 80% were of the 100k block varriety. 95% or it was total crap.. which to me as a miner since launch means only one thing.. STATIONARYS !
Ive been saying this for a long time but ill say it again.. lot trades are way way outta hand. I pass feilds of burning harvesters now that are from people that have left the game. And still more that are active. Ive surveyed what is there and 99% of the time there is nothing worth mining in a high % and you learn where the statics are.
Statics are not needed in this game and would make being a miner a very viable profession. About a year or soo ago, being a resource dealer ment something, now everyone and there brother has loads of crap and much of it for 3-5 cpu. Atleast this vender option people will only be buying the 1cpu stuff, which in a way hurts the miner prof even more as only the people with huge fleets would beable to keep up with good amounts, which in turn means more lot trades.
im all for a harvester cert. You must be the owner to operate, and novice artisan. this would keep the numbers down alot. It would kill cross server lot trades for harvesters. Sure some people will still get some guys in there guild to go mess with um. But i can tell you this after about 2 months most will say screw this.Most combat types hate mining and could easily make more money looting than spending all that time moving harvesters and swtiching resources and to use up 15 skill points for it most wouldnt do it
It would not be a cure all. But something needs to be done. With all these statics there is zero reason to ever mine grind material and instead they just drop 100+ what ever is good and have enough to never need to mine that resource again
any thoughts?
Je'Cy
Miner since launch
Cobacca1
Sun Mar 27, 2005 5:51 pm
#2
I would love to see the cross-server traded lots removed, but that probably won't happen. But like you said, it seems like mining of resources isn't very profitable these days anyway. I don't think that it has as much to do with the cross-server lot trades as much as the current state of the game. I noticed a big drop off in my resource sales after the "holo-grinding" craze, and then it picked up immensely when everyone was grinding through Shipwright, but then it tailed off pretty quickly. But right now, with the declining server populations and the fact that nobody is grinding right now, it's beena pretty slow sales environment.
CTRL_ALT
Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:04 pm
#3
There are still lot traders, but if they figure out a way to stop them...there are still the people with 15+ accounts who will dominate the market. I fail to see how low CPU hurts 'real' miners...considering that is usually costs .2-.25 cpu to mine resources, no matter how large your operation is.
Message Edited by CTRL_ALT on 03-28-2005 12:06 AM
dantaglo
Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:30 pm
#4
There is a miner on my server that I use alot.. he is excellent.. If I have a waypoint on the resource he cuts me a deal, if not then he doesnt but he's good 
Giamai
Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:26 am
#5
harvester certifications are not the answer, as was said before. it severely handicaps a number of professions that do not require artisan but do require resources, particulary doc, cm and BE. this is highly unfair as all those professions are already very skill point strapped due to prerequisites.
to be honest, i think the solution to the problem is already partly on the servers. condemned structures have to be reset by the owners...unless you know how to do it without using the radial menu. if it was a forced issue, and you had to add maintenance through the radial menu, then flaming harvesters currently dotting the landscape would poof if you couldn't bring the lot trading owner back.
as it stands now, you can pay maintenance as a non owner on a condemned structure by bypassing the radial menu and if you don't know how...still takes 6 months to poof.
the main market for huge stacks of crap materials is still architect...very little of what they make requires experimentation and therefore the stats don't matter. the other approach to limiting this is to remove the market, reduce architect resource requirements. when hologrinding was big it was everyone that could use them, but the dedicated crafters other than smuggler and architect have to be pretty selective in their resources. and smuggler doesn't really need big stacks.
Fodder650
Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:40 am
#6
Actually they started to have a fix on TC which was that only admins could add power and money to their own items. It got killed when it was found to mess with the normal building admin list.
Fodder650
Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:42 am
#7
Oh yeah saadin why would you think our materials would get changed? Nothing in the CURB documents would even imply such a thing. So stockpile what you know is good to prepare for some really heavy crafting in the week or two post CURB
Giamai
Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:24 am
#8
actually, i'm thinking if only the owner can add power and maintenance IF the structure is condemned (out of maintenance, not taken from bank account) than that would get rid of a fair percentage of the static harvs. if its a separate condition then simply adding maintenance on an non condemned structure, maybe it wouldn't produce that bug .. maybe 
there are so many flaming harvs on ahazi right now, i'm not sure why some planets don't have forest fires
Saadin
Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:50 pm
#9
who in their right mind would want to keep harvesting seriously before these big changes occur??
all of our stores of resources may be trinket-souvenirs in a few weeks
8/
JeCy
Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:32 am
#10
Giamai wrote:
harvester certifications are not the answer, as was said before. it severely handicaps a number of professions that do not require artisan but do require resources, particulary doc, cm and BE. this is highly unfair as all those professions are already very skill point strapped due to prerequisites.
Thats exactly my point... that prof called a miner : ) they mine and sell to the other professions..
i was also thinking harvester certs personals could be novice artisan, novice medic.. yes they can be at both. Mediums at survey 4, and heavys dare i say master artisan : )
artisan tree name changed.. survey box 1 = surveyor, survey box 4 = miner : )
resources are just to easy to get.. and get millions. when there is 5,000,000,000 units of metal forsale and thats JUST the stuff thats listed on vendors.... there si somthing wrong.
Giamai
Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:40 pm
#11
as a doctor i can tell you flat out that there is no way personal harvesters will get me enough to make demand.
miner as a profession is a lovely theory but basically what happens is every single crafter becomes slave to a monopoly.
my weapons are priced relatively cheap because i don't pay for resources...same for my stims.
if you make it so i become dependent on a small number of players for everything, you better believe people will take advantage of it, and prices will go through the roof. and we will be forced to pay up or do without. and pass the cost on to customers.
my recommendation (stolen from someone else heh) was to give mining bonuses to artisan rather than taking away the capability en masse...whether that be increased extraction rates, less stringent harvester placing abilities or both. this makes it more appealing for people to take up artisan all the way through the survey tree.
try talking somebody into grinding all of surveying just for cross server lots will not go over well
taking away the ability to essentiallyto create a monopoly will bork the economies up like nobodiy's business as well as severely handicap people with a legitimate need for resources.
consider instead what i mentioned above...once a harvester is condemned, only the owner can fix or it poofs in a week. add in artisan bonuses to make artisan an appealing option. alter architect resource stack requirements such that smaller stacks are required (trust me, even with 10 lots its nearly impossible to get the resources required for architect) thus removing some of the resource market, and you will have eliminated much of the impetus for cross server lot trading.
within server lot renting is considered a completely legal means for gaining lots as per the developer discussion at fanfest last year so not every harvester is necessarily going to go but this should help.
Cobacca1
Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:02 pm
#12
Giamai wrote:
miner as a profession is a lovely theory but basically what happens is every single crafter becomes slave to a monopoly.
my weapons are priced relatively cheap because i don't pay for resources...same for my stims.
if you make it so i become dependent on a small number of players for everything, you better believe people will take advantage of it, and prices will go through the roof. and we will be forced to pay up or do without. and pass the cost on to customers.
Sorta like every player that wants a weapon is a slave to the Weaponsmith "monopoly"? Just like every other crafting profession out there, the competition among miners would keep the costs in check.
I think that any professions that need a lot of resources from the ground, such as WS, AS, DE, Architect etc, should have mining ability.
Giamai
Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:15 pm
#13
Cobacca1 wrote:
Giamai wrote:
miner as a profession is a lovely theory but basically what happens is every single crafter becomes slave to a monopoly.
my weapons are priced relatively cheap because i don't pay for resources...same for my stims.
if you make it so i become dependent on a small number of players for everything, you better believe people will take advantage of it, and prices will go through the roof. and we will be forced to pay up or do without. and pass the cost on to customers.
Sorta like every player that wants a weapon is a slave to the Weaponsmith "monopoly"?
I think that any professions that need a lot of resources from the ground, such as WS, AS, DE, Architect etc, should have mining ability.
my point is that this concept leaves nonartisan requiring crafters left with nothing but personals...this is unfair. there are other ways than certifications to deal with cross server trades.
to be an effective miner and harvest all the required resources to serve docs/combat medics alone almost demands static harvesters, 10 lots will be insufficient. that is why there will be monopolies...take away the ability from docs, and only a very small number of people to fill the void.
miner was removed from the game in beta for 1 major reason...it was dull... hence the small numbers of people who will devote an entire skill tree to it. kinda like politician. oh wait they fixed that...everyone can be a politician, and everyone can be a miner
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