Artisan Archive

Thread: Expanding the Vehicle Market

WolfwoodCross
Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:54 am
#1

Not an Arisan myself, but wanted to run this past you. I've also posted this in the current "In Conept" thread.


Buying a new car is great. It runs great. Hell, it smells great. But after awhile you have to take it in for a tune-up. No biggie. It runs like new now. This cycle of "Tune Ups" reoccurs for years until a car is so run down, that there is no amount of repairs that can be done, short of full-blown restoration, that will save the car. People sell their "junker" or send it to the scrap heap and go and buy a new car.


This exact logic is what should apply to Vehicles. Vehicles as they are now receive Damage that can be fully repaired at Garage. A player can keep a Vehicle going FOREVER by doing this. This kills the market for Vehicles. The only people who buy vehicles are the ones who have theirs completely destroyed, or those new to the game.


My idea is this, to help Vehicles be the true money sink they are meant to be, allow Vehicles to receive Damage AND unhealable "Wounds." After a while, the vehicle will be so banged up (read "full of wounds") that a player will be forced to junk it and buy another. This will help Master Artisans to better move Vehicles, as well as create that much needed money sink in the Economy.


Finer Points



  • Vehicles will receive an amount of irepairable wounds in proportion (about 10%) to the amount of damage a vehicle takes between Garage visits. This emphasizes the need to "tune up" your vehicle at a Garage more often.

  • The Shuttleport Repair Bug needs to be fixed (scheduled for Publish 8, so good ^_^ )

  • Players need to have the one vehicle per player limit back (so that players can't go three times as long without returning to a M. Artisan)

  • Repair costs at a Garage will be done via the percentage of Damage Repaired. This way old junkers that are 50% black-barred and brand new vehicles will pay the same amount for having 10% damage repaired. Old Junkers would start to "cost more" over time, because they fall apart faster.

GonkSevenT3
Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:38 pm
#2

I think this is a good idea and it makes a great deal of sense. If you repair your vehicle often enough the wounds are less and it lasts longer on the whole. The money sink for the most part goes to the garage not the artisan. If more people are buying more vehicles more often, the price per vehicle would drop (not that I think they are high now). Not every crafter is a master artisan so not every crafter is capable of building a speeder so it's not every crafter who is going to be making all the money off this idea. I think it has merit and should be explored more not just immediately thrown aside as a "greedy artisan" thing.


Additionally, perhaps vehicle colorization could be tied to the wound level of the speeder. That way if you repair the speeder more often your paint job lasts longer, which is something most people seem to want.





"How can you be so serious on a film where you are dodging explosions and running away with Sir Alec Guinness on this side and an eight-foot monkey on this side, and the eight-foot monkey is the one flying the spaceship?" ~Mark Hamill
Jedi-Dan
Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:28 pm
#3

Another method of income would be that Master Artisans could effect repairs on the vehicles. It is a player driven economy after all. Why can't a player who can build a vehicle from scratch not be able to repair same? Artisans would be required to hang out at a garage and perhaps have crafted a vehicle repair kit.


Also Maybe a new Professional vehicle tree is needed. Like the Armorsmith or weaponsmith. And shouldn't something as complicated as vehicles be built in parts? I suggest a tree broken up into these four sections. Customization Frame Engine Body. The customization would enable color patterns and decals. The frame would encompass handling, class(tracked, wheeled, hover)and terrain negotiation. Engine would take on land speed and water speed. Body would be the shells of these cars.





Dann Ger'Ous, Lance Corporal Imperial Army
Bothan Spynet Operative
Sharpshooter/Fencer/Engineer

Long live the Empire, Long live the Emperor.
MadACR
Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:10 pm
#4




Jedi-Dan wrote:

Another method of income would be that Master Artisans could effect repairs on the vehicles. It is a player driven economy after all. Why can't a player who can build a vehicle from scratch not be able to repair same? Artisans would be required to hang out at a garage and perhaps have crafted a vehicle repair kit.


Also Maybe a new Professional vehicle tree is needed. Like the Armorsmith or weaponsmith. And shouldn't something as complicated as vehicles be built in parts? I suggest a tree broken up into these four sections. Customization Frame Engine Body. The customization would enable color patterns and decals. The frame would encompass handling, class(tracked, wheeled, hover)and terrain negotiation. Engine would take on land speed and water speed. Body would be the shells of these cars.








With the ability to build only three vehicals, a new profession is worthless. In the future I hope to be able to build more vehical types, and then have the a vehical profession added.


As for the vehical wounds, I agree that this will just turn vehicals into a burden. Those things allready degrade way to fast, don't give them wounds. I say take away the timed decay, and make PvE target your bike instead of the rider. That way the damage done is "real" damage, and not some caveman damage system that exists in todays system. These things can float in the air, surely they can force damaging debries out of the way.


I do like the idea of making things more interdependant, however this does force some people to be social, and some players are NOT capable of playing a highly sociable game (tell them to become combat characters )


Dex1138
Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:09 am
#5



Players need to have the one vehicle per player limit back



Have you ever been thousands of km away from civilization with 0 terrain negotiation and had your ride destroyed? Not fun! I'd be happierknocking it down to 2/player.


Or paying a fee to a garage to get a "ride" to the closest settlement, kinda like a tow.




Tol "the Travelling Tailor" Doneeta
* Threads N' Things *
Fine Clothing and Furniture
Master Tailor | Kauri
(no relation to Tott Doneeta)


Spacedog
Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:40 am
#6





I have two accounts, one containing a combat-oriented character (Cere), the other containing a master artisan/master weaponsmith. I spend most of my time on Cere, and an ongoing and growing aggravation that I have is that in SWG, non-artisan classes are viewed as the sole source of income for the artisans, creating an economic flow whereby artisan classes have a vastly higher concentration of wealth. What is particularly bothersome is the "planned obsolescence" involved in many artisan-produced goods, resulting in fairly high turnover for some objects in the game. Armor, for example, deteriorates pretty quickly with use, as do weapons.


Having a situation where I have to be continually re-purchasing equipment from artisans can be frustrating, requiring me to spend a substantial amount of time, money, and energyshopping for things so I can then go out and play the game. Instead of having non-artisans provide the vast majority of an artisan's income through the creation of deteriorating products, I believe that the game should encourage more interdependence among artisan classes. Have master artisans produce a product that is essential to armorsmiths, for example. The current relationship between Bioengineers and Chefs and Tailors is a good example and a nice start. Ultimately, these costs are still passed along to the consumer, but the consumer is spending money for superior products rather than continually having to replace their mediocre and unimaginative ones. Additionally, artisans should have means of making money via missions in much the same way that combat characters do, relieving some of the economic dependence that creaes a pressure for planned obsolescence.


This is a rather lengthy explanation for why my reaction to your post was immediately "NO, not more planned obsolescence", but that is my position. Paying money to artisans more frequently is also not a money sink; it does not remove money from the economy.(Garages are money sinks, artisans are not.) Instead, it just perpetuates the current economic imbalance where, overwhelmingly, thehighest concentration of wealth is with crafters. (And, I'd like to remind you that I am also a master weaponsmith, soit isn't jealousy that is motivating my position here.)


As the system is designed, there is already a reason for people to replace their vehicles; they will be destroyed and need to be replaced through means besides systematic condition decay. Granted, this doesn't happen currently because of starport exploits, but once this is fixed, people will have reasons to replace their vehicles.


I am personally tired of playing under a system where non-artisan classes essentially rent their playing experience from artisans. There should certainly be reasons for players to return to crafters, but continuing to introduce mechanisms that require players to work more to maintain their status-quo will only serve to alienate players from their crafters. For an example, look at the current "customization" kits; they degrade so quickly that players cease using them at all; the decay on these items exceeds their utility or players' desires to continue shelling out money to artisans. The same can happen with any product that is deliberately designed to fail and last only briefly.


Consequently, I oppose any mechanism that adds further burdens on non-crafters to redistribute their wealth (and therefore their time) toward crafters.


Message Edited by Spacedog on 04-21-2004 04:35 PM




Cere Sollisar
Cabal
Imperial Colonel, Flurry Galaxy
| Sniper | Martial Artist | Special Agent |
Wokka
Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:48 am
#7






Buying a new car is great. It runs great. Hell, it smells great. But after awhile you have to take it in for a tune-up. No biggie. It runs like new now. This cycle of "Tune Ups" reoccurs for years until a car is so run down, that there is no amount of repairs that can be done, short of full-blown restoration, that will save the car. People sell their "junker" or send it to the scrap heap and go and buy a new car.


This exact logic is what should apply to Vehicles. Vehicles as they are now receive Damage that can be fully repaired at Garage. A player can keep a Vehicle going FOREVER by doing this. This kills the market for Vehicles. The only people who buy vehicles are the ones who have theirs completely destroyed, or those new to the game.



You must not get out much. I've had countless rides destroyed once the creature I was fighting incaps or kills me and I just have to watch it take out my swoop because it's still angry.


Maybe YOURS lasts forever but I guarantee mine get usage and have high mileage. and with the next patch, there is no more fixing a disabled vehicle.


Wokka-wokka


_KernMist
Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:05 am
#8



Spacedog:

non-artisan classes are viewed as the sole source of income for the artisans, creating an economic flow whereby artisan classes have a vastly higher concentration of wealth





This is not necessarily the case on all servers. I know on my server that this is almost the exact opposite. The combat classes have all the wealth and the crafters are struggling to survive. It's difficult for a crafter to explain just how much time and money/resources go into making particular items, and the combat classes are refusing to pay for goods/services that cost this much.


Architects suffer the worst because housing takes such huge amounts of resources that the outlay in order to build one is immense. They have to charge high prices in order to make any profit at all.People are refusing to buy at these prices which then force the Architects to sell cheaper. This means that the crafter (Architect in this example)starts looking for renewable income (most things are a one time buy - houses, vehicles, most droids etc).


The long and the short of it is that one of two things will solve this problem :-


1. crafters need to sell their goods for what they're worth (and the rest of the world will have to pay those prices...)


2. or the crafter needs renewable income.



Wracca
Master Droid Engineer
Wracca's Palace of Droid Love, Mos Espa, Tatooine, Chimaera

Vendor: Maraac - Complete Droids, Mos Espa (-2395, 1403).
Vendor: Graak - Complete Droids, Mos Eisley (2468, -4652).
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