Artisan Archive
Thread: Post I just made regarding Publish 9 and the artisan community
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Guruweaver
Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:26 am
#1
Hey all,
Below is a message I just sent to the devs regarding the changes that were made to crafting in Publish 9. I hope I have represented y'all here appropriately.
I really don't like the changes that were made to crafting tools and allowed schematics.
Before, all Artisan schematics could be made with a Weapon/Droid/General tool and experimented at a Weapon/Droid/General station.
Now it is broken out by type.
The Generic Tool can create some food, some clothes, some installations, other generic tools, (oddly [my toon is a MDE]) a fair chunk of droid components, all the Misc tab items, a few weapons, a few harvesters, and some armor (bone).
The W/D/G tool can make: All the Misc tab (which includes all crafting tools *except* the generic tool), All artisan weapons. (plus all MDE stuff , but that's not relevant)
The Structure tool can make: all artisan harvester (personal harvesters)
The Food/Chem tool can make: all Artisan foods and containers
The Clothing/Armor can make: All artisan clothes and armor
This alone is an annoyance, you must have one of each tool to make all artisan schematics. I can live with that, though it is a pain.
The problems lie deeper though.
Experimentation:
Generic Tool: Allows no experimentation. This like before. It is important to note, though, that you can only make generic tools with generic tools.
W/D/G, Struct, Food/Chem, and Clothing/Armor: When crafting Artisan schematics with them, you can only experiment next to the appropriate crafting station.
So, prior to the publish, Artisans could craft and experiment every one of their schematics with W/D/G tools and W/D/G stations. Now, to make and experiment all of our schematics requries one of each tool and station. Quite a change and at the prices stations go for (with decent quality, whatever good that does), could take a bite out of an Artisan, plus the storage costs for the additional station.
It made sense to me that the W/D/G could craft all Artisan schematics through the magic of the "General" part of the tool.
Remind me why this was done? It makes life a lot harder for Master Artisans attempting to make a living with just Artisan schematics. (all five of us)
Thanks for listening.
StoneRook1
Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:05 am
#3
couldn't you use a droid with the crafting stations installed?
or do they affect the final product?
Bladewraith
Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:22 am
#4
Yes, you can use a crafting droid. It would still need every crafting module and you would need one of every crafting tool to be able to experiment on the items. This is still a LOT of credits compared to how it has been for a year and now you can't make a generic crafting tool with high effectiveness (if it makes a difference).
SinjenRandall
Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:30 am
#5
My memory could be playing tricks on me, but isn't this the way it used to be? Back when the game first went live? I could swear that I remember crafting artisan clothing and bone armor using an Armor / Clothing tool. I thought I remember this changing and the WDG tool got more tabs, and I thought it was broken. I think they just waited a very, very long time to fix it.
Can anyone remember that far back or am I just getting old?
Tansun
Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:31 am
#6
So what tool do we use now to make vehicles? I guess it would be the structure one so that we could exp on the template....or least I hope.
Meplorium
Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:14 pm
#7
Sounds like it is working as intended now. Not sure what the problem is. I have a few tools of each kind in my back pack at all times and one of each station. Then again I am a master artisan and I do make the array of items that artisans make.
Giamai
Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:37 pm
#8
Tansun wrote:
So what tool do we use now to make vehicles? I guess it would be the structure one so that we could exp on the template....or least I hope.
i made vehicles last night on general/droid/weapon tool with the accompanying crafting station.
Drashk
Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:12 pm
#9
The way that I remember it was that you could craft any Artisan item with the W/G/D, but could only experiment on items with Complexity of 16+ with the corresponding tool.
Guruweaver wrote:
SinjenRandall wrote:
My memory could be playing tricks on me, but isn't this the way it used to be? Back when the game first went live? I could swear that I remember crafting artisan clothing and bone armor using an Armor / Clothing tool. I thought I remember this changing and the WDG tool got more tabs, and I thought it was broken. I think they just waited a very, very long time to fix it.
Can anyone remember that far back or am I just getting old?
You are right, as I have been informed. Doesn't change the fact that a lot of folks are going to be caught flat-footed by this change.
Argonlaser
Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:07 pm
#10
1. This is a Crafting Tool Nerf anyway you look at it. And it is far worse than it seems at first. It pretty much makes starting Artisans a useless profession. They are given a tool and they can't even experiment with it. In fact to ply their trade they must get all the tools and crafting stations to make their schematics. Why is this necessary? When was this discussed?
2. The Weapon, Droid and General Crafting Tool description says it is used to make complex generic items. This is no longer true. It is now just the Weapon and Droid Tool.
3. As an example of the stupidity of these changes, the Generic Crafting Tool is the only tool that can make a Generic Crafting Tool which is the only one you don't need to make. If you do make one, you can't experiment on it so it will be worse than the one you used to make it. So how do I make a +14.00 orgreaterGeneric Tool now? Or is the reasoning that since Artisan is nerfed I don't need to worry about critical failures anymore?
4. Crafting is becoming a real second class profession. Combat is all that seems to get attention. What happened to the Crafting Quest mentioned several times in the Test Center notes? Where is the "dungeon" for all the people that aren't BH or TKM?
The Devs fiddle while the game burns.....
Kievie
Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:31 pm
#11
As a Master Artisan but only a Novice Weaponsmith, I earn a pretty decent income selling +14.88 crafting tools on the Bazaar.
So last night I go to make a new batch of tools for saleand discover I can no longer make Generic Crafting Tools with my Weapon, Droid and General Item Crafting Tool. I haven't used a Generic Crafting Tool for monthsand make them only for sale. So I don't even have one on me. So now I read on this thread that I have to have one to make one. So here I am a Master Artisan and I have to buy a Generic Crafting Tool so that I can make them again. The only problem is that the ones I make will be something like -6.5 at best since I can't experiment on them.
Truly absurd!
sciguyCO
Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:30 pm
#12
Argon, maybe I can cover the points you make:
1) As stated a few times, the "magic WDG tool" that can be used to make anything was a bug that crept in after launch (around the Mount publish, IIRC). Is it a nerf if a feature gets brought back down after a bug inadvertantly makes it too "powerful"? Starting artisans don't need to buy every station, every NPC city has public stations just lying around. Crafting tools are basically a joke to make. If someone can't craft one of each in a single play session starting with no resources, a generic tool and a mineral survey device, they may want to look into another profession. Generic tool -> chem survey tool -> crappy WDG -> experimented WDG -> experimented rest of tools. It's not like the effectiveness of tools/stations has been shown to have a huge difference (although the cumulative effect of high quality tools + station + research center + bespin port does tend to get into the noticeable range).
2) Generic items are just that: items that aren't armor, clothing, food, harvesters, BE tissues, stimpacks, etc. Everything under the "Misc" tab, for example: fireworks, crafting tools, powerups, droid batteries, repair tools, camps, traps, etc. If every item in the game could be crafted with a single tool, why would they even bother with the rest? I mean, there was really no need for a armor tool before, you could make everything up to composite with a WDG tool and station. Same with food, medicine, structures, and clothing.
3) Not being able to make a generic tool with a WDG is a bug, plain and simple, and its being fixed.
4) I don't know how you'll take the news, but the "crafting quest" is in Pub9, available for you to take now. But it boils down to yet another "kill lots of NPCs for loot-only components then combine into item" quest (the blue/orange rug, loom,and glass-top table items). Find a junk dealer who gives the conversation choice "what do you have to sell" (or something along those lines) to start it. I'll save my opinion of those for another rant, though. I'm not even sure if artisan is required for the combine.
Crafting professions haven't been getting much attention because for the most part, they work. Sure some things could work better, a few little bugs are skittering around, but there aren't really any game-breaking problems with crafting.
Meplorium
Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:43 pm
#13
Got a chance today to use the updated weapon tool, and I can say I like it much better. Things are better organized by choosing the right tool. The lack of experimenting a generic tool doesn't bother me. Why would you need a good generic tool? If you are serious enough to care about tool quality, you aren't using a generic tool. Kind of a mute point if you ask me.
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