Artisan Archive
Thread: So IF SWG is a skill based game, why is it class based?
mkummer wrote:
I think what you see is true. And i see more problems with crafting professions and experimentation, for me it looks like that you have to grind to master and then can start with playing the professions. Because no one wants to buy the goods that are not maxed with experimentation. And i think its a bigproblem for Weaponsmith and Armorsmith and not so big for architekt or tailer because houses and clothes are the same without experimentation.
Don't get me started on tailor experimenting....but for those of you that don't know... it doesn't exist. Nothing a tailor makes can be experimented on.
Masters should be able to experiment more than dabblers, as in real life. Dabblers may experiment more, but masters are going to produce more finished product than noobs.
As far as Architects not having a problem with experimentation, you obviously aren't one if you think that. If an architect doesn't max out the BER (base extraction rate) of harvesters, they might as well destroy them. They certainly can't make good money off them. Houses are far from the top priority of most architects.
What masters really need is less chance of critical failure.
-Agrin Pi'nel
Master Architect
Master Artisan
Master Tailor
cronus00 wrote:
TY for your input and thoughts.. I appreciate the discussion and thoughts..
I think one thing everyone will have to keep in mind is, "what will happen to professions once the hologrind is gone".. Currently there are ample numbers of various professions, but I think most of us would agree that if it wasn't for the holo craze, those numbers would be much different.. I fear in the long run people will become bored with any profession they choose in crafting, and with little or no hope in dabbling, and people feeling forced to grind in another will only make people leave the game..
I come from EQ where we are allowed to have 8 characters per server.. If I'm not in the mood to play a "tank", then i'll play a healer or whatever.. My options are wide and diverse.. Granted on SWG, we can't have multiple characters per server because of the fear it might cause with NO dependacy with others.. That I can agree with and understand.. But now the double edge blade cuts both ways.. Without the option to stay on the same server and play a different profession is frowned upon.. The inability to effectively dabble in other professions is going to hurt this game.. I think we all can agree that most people that tire of a given profession and need a break will not take the pain staking surrender of skills and grind in other areas.. People will stick with what they have, and when they finally have enough of it, they quit..
People only switched professions as much as they did recently because of the holo chase to Jedi, without that I think the professional breakdown would be much different.. Only time will tell, unfortunetly I will not be around to see that.. I have been a Master Musician and tried to dabble in crafting during those empty cantina times and to keep my interest, however since I refuse to give up my master title and skills, crafting was not an option.. I had 20 skill points to play with, without sacrificing my Music, but those 20 pts will do nothing for me in an elite crafting professions.. 15 pts for Novice, and5 points left to fill ONEbox.. Well, so much for that idea..
Hence, I'm cancelling, and will go back to EQ and see and enjoyall the new changes theyhave added in the last 2 expansions..
When you mention abou tnot letting multiple characters per server because it would cause a lack of dependency. that is just BS. They did that so people would pay for mulitple accounts, so that they wouuld not need to depend on someone. And with the way houses work just add your other character to the admin list drop the item in the house log on with your supper combat class, get rare material then switch back to crafting. They did it so they could get more money.
Stargzrrag wrote:
mkummer wrote:
I think what you see is true. And i see more problems with crafting professions and experimentation, for me it looks like that you have to grind to master and then can start with playing the professions. Because no one wants to buy the goods that are not maxed with experimentation. And i think its a bigproblem for Weaponsmith and Armorsmith and not so big for architekt or tailer because houses and clothes are the same without experimentation.
Don't get me started on tailor experimenting....but for those of you that don't know... it doesn't exist. Nothing a tailor makes can be experimented on.
Masters should be able to experiment more than dabblers, as in real life. Dabblers may experiment more, but masters are going to produce more finished product than noobs.
This part I disagree with.. Masters really have no distinct advange on novice skills.. This holds true to most things in life.. Being a master or professional gives you the ability to jump over a higher bar then a noob.. A noob athelite can jump over that 3 foot bar just as easy as a professional olympic high jumper.. Raise it to 7 feet and it's a different story.. A noob golfer most likely will make that same 1 foot putt just as easy.. An olympic gymnast doesn't do cartwheels any better then a high school gymnast.. Those elite masters and professionals in the real world such as Mercedes Benz, Rolls Royce, Harley Davidson, etc etc do not bother with low end entry novice products, because they know they don't have the ability to make it any better for the money.. You can only make a bread box so good.. I hate to blow your whistle, but I bet I can make a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich just as good as Emeril can..
As far as Architects not having a problem with experimentation, you obviously aren't one if you think that. If an architect doesn't max out the BER (base extraction rate) of harvesters, they might as well destroy them. They certainly can't make good money off them. Houses are far from the top priority of most architects.
What masters really need is less chance of critical failure.
-Agrin Pi'nel
Master Architect
Master Artisan
Master Tailor
cronus00 wrote:
May I offer a suggestion, and please keep an open mind.. Move all experimentation points in level 1-4 boxes to novice.. What this will do is allow novice to be somewhat competive with low end schematics.. If you get to the Master title, you still get that 1 or 2 point bonus.. If you live in a player city that offers a bonus, that is still active and encouraged as well.. Masters would still have a slight advantage over everyone else, but not to the huge degree the system is designed now.. In fact I think this would actually spark a little life in the game, as it would promote dabbling in professions.. I know too many, such as myself, get bored doing the same things over and over again.. Wouldn't it be prudent to introduce options to players to dabble in crafting and feel they have a chance..
I am a Master Artisan and I think this idea has alot of merit. I work at crafting, but I am close to burnout. Since I am a master of a "novice" profession I have more skill points available than "elite" masters, but I am also a Smuggler, which cancels that out. I would love to see a system that would allow me to effectively dabble without having to sacrifice the time I have spend on my primary profession. If I could be a crafter and a viable combatant also then the game would be alot more enjoyable. Cronus' idea might make dabbling fun again but it wouldn't make masters irrelevant for a couple of reasons. Give the lionshare of experimentation points at novice, assign the schematics to the skill boxes, and give a final bonus at Master. There are several reasons why this could work:
-It would make entrance into professions more attractive to players by allowing them to make marketable product right away. It could also decrease market "dumping" where grinders sell products at reduced prices to try and make up grinding costs.
-The majority of sales in all professions aremaximized schematics made by a couple of masters. Starting out with a better chance at making a workable item at novice would give players working up to master a better chance at making saleable items *before* reaching master. This might also lead to a fillingout of themissing niches in the various product lines.
-Novice "elite" combat professions are already attractive for the same reason. The T21, Vibroknucklers, and DX2s all become available to dabblers in their professions, but really start to shine as they master the profession.
-The real distinction in item quality right now is not as much how many experimentation points the crafter has to spend; but rather the quality level of the resources they use, and the knowledge they use in picking the right resources for each component. Changing where the experimentation is wouldn't change that fact.
-By allowing players to dabble in professions, rather than have to master them to be viable, the players will be more inclined to try the different professions and less prone to burnout.
-I'm not a programmer but it seems to me thatthis wouldbe a change more on the order of tweaking existing balances rather than reinventing the wheel. Even though it could have wide-reaching effects to balance and gameplay, I don't think that the code changewould be that hard or take thatlong to implement.