Artisan Archive
Thread: Pickup/Dropoff/Storage Vendors
We had nearly the same senario on Bria last week. "Player A" named a backpack "ADK x 4 (with another players name here)" and had it on his vendor for 10 million credits. A steal for 10 mil! Not to mention a steal from other players! Of course when"Player B" discovered 4 bofa treats instead, he filed a ticket.
The senior CSR demanded player A refund/reverse transaction and said nothing else would happen. The CSR gave player A a deadline and stated if he didn't reverse it himself, the CSR would do it and then mark his account. Player A wisely decided to refund and avoided any repercussions.
Personally, I like the fact they take such a strong stand to scamming...but imho, this particularsituation is a bit over the top. When another's player's name is on a backpack, at that point, it's obvious it is for someone else. Player "B" was trying to steal someone else's items and got burned. Regardless if it's on a public bazaar...it was in a backpack that has warning when you buy it, it had name of other player, and it was labled pick up/drop off vendor with a bark that said do not buy from this vendor. If anyone should be punished here it should be Player B....just mho.
Although I don't agree with this incident, I do understandand appreciate a tough approach to scammers. Anyway, it's not cut and dry if you get disciplinary action in these situations...but it ispossible. They seem to give players the chance to reverse it themselves first, and then punish if it actually requires CSR intervention.
Dimear wrote:
... this is a game where the CSR's are allowed to use their common sense.
Screenshot please.
Being "allowed" to do something and actually doing it are two very different things.
Message Edited by Amizar on 09-13-2005 01:49 PM
Elyssa wrote:
They do not recognize "ownership" of any item on vendors.
Any item on any vendor may be "legally" purchased by any player willing to pay the cost of the item.
Therefore they will not take action against someone who buys an item that was "meant for someone else" and the scammer was 100% in the wrong.
One of the Top Issues for merchants is a request for "directed sales" that will allow a merchant to specify an item for sale to a specific person and prevent anyone else from buying it.
However, until the Devs get around to adding that feature, anything on a vendor is fair game.
I didn't suggest "they" recognize owndership of any items on a vendor. Many, many players do though....I would suggest the vast majority.
He was doing what was suggested on these forums about placing fake names/orders to deter "thieves".He had a vendor barking do not buy, he had a players name on it, there is a warning that pops up when you buy a container, etc.
If your saying the scammer...and I assume you mean the seller....is 100% wrong...then that would suggest the buyer is 100% right for buying a pack clearly marked for someone else. That's beyond my ability to comprehend. The only explanation I can fathom is that your basing "right and wrong" soley on CSR action or inaction.
Because you can get away with something in game, does not make it 100% right. Also, the seller didn't receive any punishment...as long as he reversed thetransaction. So I do believe "they" see the mitigating circumstances involved.
And yes, I hope the devs see this issue in this thread and other threads about the "scam"..and add direct sales through vendors. It would definitely help reduce CSR's tickets as just this one issue on bria has had several CSR's and senior CSR involved to resolve it.
It does not change the fact that using deceptive labelling on items leaves you wide open to disciplinary action.
4. You may not defraud other players.
Fraud is defined as falsely representing one's intentions to make a gain at another's expense. Examples of this activity include but are not limited to - offering to "slice" a weapon or container belonging to another player and then keeping the items and/or credits - as well as using flaws in a secure trade window to deprive someone of one or more of their items or credits. Other examples include selling disabled vehicles, renaming items and selling them as a different item, or violating any trade agreement (such as agreeing to craft an item for resources, but keeping the resources/item instead).. These examples are not all inclusive, other violations will be reviewed by Customer Service on a case by case basis.
Defrauding other customers will result in the removal of earnings or equivalent goods from your accounts, and may result in disciplinary action being taken against the account that may include official warnings, account suspensions, or account terminations depending on the severity of the incident which will be determined by a CSR and a CSR Supervisor. Multiple suspensions or account termination will result in the termination of all SOE game accounts.
Elyssa wrote:However, I'm fairly certain that had the person pushed the issue to a higher level that the situation would have turned out differently.
How do you push issues up to a higher level? Ask a correspondant? I was under the impression that they would eat you if you submitted the same ticket twice after you received one CSR response you didn't like.
You usually have to email customer service directly, tho.
Perhaps a bit off topic but maybe some of you could use this, I do not think it will constitute fraud.
When I have a custom order, I hand create several Travel Packs and leave the default name. I place one item in every pack and one pack gets the custom order. I then place all the packs on my vendor for the same price and email my customer the serial number of the pack they should buy.
If someone other than my client buys the correct pack then I need to explain the situation to my customer and start again.
If someone buys a "dummy" pack, well to bad for them, I don't see how this could be fraud because the only description of the item is the generic travel pack name, which is exactly what they got (with a free firework or whatever).
Dimear wrote:
Elyssa wrote:However, I'm fairly certain that had the person pushed the issue to a higher level that the situation would have turned out differently.
How do you push issues up to a higher level? Ask a correspondant? I was under the impression that they would eat you if you submitted the same ticket twice after you received one CSR response you didn't like.
you email [email protected] and ask them to review your issue.
anyway, I think everyone's missing the point. Elyssa's saying that you CAN get in trouble for it, not you WILL. both sides are at fault... but it's up to the CSR to decide which side holds more responsibility. if you want to take that risk, just don't complain about it if you get in trouble.
p.s.: I have decoy packs myself. They're named after people I know, and I got permission to use their name.
Message Edited by Pappi on 09-13-2005 07:18 PM
It's not quite as convenient -- directed sales would be better -- but in the meantime, it's OK, and a lot of people appreciate the personal touch as long as I make myself available more-or-less according to their schedule (not that I play 24 hours a day but I haven't run into a situation yet where we couldn't schedule something).
Elyssa wrote:
And in fact I'm willing to back my assertions up with the posted Community Standards.
4. You may not defraud other players.
Fraud is defined as falsely representing one's intentions to make a gain at another's expense. Examples of this activity include but are not limited to - offering to "slice" a weapon or container belonging to another player and then keeping the items and/or credits - as well as using flaws in a secure trade window to deprive someone of one or more of their items or credits. Other examples include selling disabled vehicles, renaming items and selling them as a different item, or violating any trade agreement (such as agreeing to craft an item for resources, but keeping the resources/item instead).. These examples are not all inclusive, other violations will be reviewed by Customer Service on a case by case basis.
Defrauding other customers will result in the removal of earnings or equivalent goods from your accounts, and may result in disciplinary action being taken against the account that may include official warnings, account suspensions, or account terminations depending on the severity of the incident which will be determined by a CSR and a CSR Supervisor. Multiple suspensions or account termination will result in the termination of all SOE game accounts.
I do not seehow that backs up your assertionsthatthe buyer was 100% right. The only thing I can see that applies is the players "intentions". Since the seller wasn't punished in this case, it can only be deduced that the Senior CSRtook into account all the warnings the seller had in place and didn'tbelieve his intent was to defraud.
I'll admit that CSR's have had a spotty track record in regards to consistancy...butit seems there has been a focus on improving 1st tier CSR support recently...at least that's been my and friends experiences lately...but a Senior CSR's actions are rarely overturned.
I agree that it is a "seller beware" atmosphere in this game. I agree that you*can* get in trouble for mislabeling a backpack. I agree that the seller was wrong for putting the letters adk on the pack. I agree with nearly everything except the assertion that the seller is 100% scammer and buyer is 100% right.
The buyer is 100% thief. Period. Nearly every merchant I've done business with has had a backpack on their vendor with a players name on them. Is it too much to assume those packs are ment for a particular player? Is it a leap of logic that ifa player, other than who it's labled for,bought the pack... that they (the merchant) would identify that as stealing?
Again, because you can get away with something in game does not make it "right"
I'llwrap up myresponse to this threadby posting the last officialSOE warning a player receives before entering a transaction such as this:
"You are attempting to buy a container named "***". The container's name does not necessarily reflect its contents. Do not make this purchase unless you trust this seller.
i like that idea! one thing i do, when the buyer is someone who knows me and trust me and i know that they're rich, is mark the item up by a few million and put a piece of junk in the pack with it, and then they offer the junk back to the vendor for that few million and i buy it back. that way the final cost to them is the same, but the chances of random joe buying it decrease a little bit. obviously i don't use this method with folks i barely know, or folks on a tight budget.
Kejid wrote:
Perhaps a bit off topic but maybe some of you could use this, I do not think it will constitute fraud.
When I have a custom order, I hand create several Travel Packs and leave the default name. I place one item in every pack and one pack gets the custom order. I then place all the packs on my vendor for the same price and email my customer the serial number of the pack they should buy.
If someone other than my client buys the correct pack then I need to explain the situation to my customer and start again.
If someone buys a "dummy" pack, well to bad for them, I don't see how this could be fraud because the only description of the item is the generic travel pack name, which is exactly what they got (with a free firework or whatever).
This was not my idea, I believe it is stickied at the top of all the trade forums.