Artisan Archive

Thread: Certing Harvesters will Encourage Cross-Server Lot Trades

AgiloSeilar
Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:15 am
#14

I think the best solution has already been proposed, limit the number of harvestors you can have admin rights to. If you can only have access to say 15-20 harvs then you are going to make sure that you get full use out of them. Meaning that you will rent from on server friends/lot owners that you can trust to take the time to move the harvs where they are best used. Removing admin access to other peoples harvs is feasable (you still have hopper access available) but I feel it's too drakonian as the landlord now has to look after those harvs completely, not something I would want to inflict on a friend.

I agree that without the above or some measure to reduce CS lot trades, certs will increase them, however I do still feel certs would benefit the game. Personals for everyone, mediums (these are the most efficient harvs)for all elite novices/basic masters and survey 1 (so you can still rent useable lots from most people), and heavies (the most effective harvs)for survey 3-4 (so that you can have people more dedicated than most to mining).

Inevo, Master Armorsmith, Naboo/Tatooine, Tarquinas
Scoooter
Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:02 am
#15






joined42904 wrote:

Why did you guys go and one-star Fneegan?


Removing admin rights is more important than certification. These posts prove that.


Here's my proposal:


Total Elimination of Admin on all Harvesters...you want to mine you do everything with that lot.


Harvester Certification beyond personals linked to Survey Line or a new miner profession


Harvester Lots (with a cap) linked to Master artisan and every elite profession that crafts limited to harvester use...yes these lots include doctor and combat medic but they just get extra personals if they don't put points in survey (or miner if implemented)...of course using a lot of BER 4 personals might just meet most of their needs.


Limit total lots per account to 24 total in additon to 10 per server not counting extra harvester lots that are linked to skill set. Only harvester lots linked to skill set may be used for placing harvesters.


AND


Limit the number of structures anyone can have admin rights on to 4 factories and 3 homes or other structures such as guildhalls or houses.


Anyone think this wouldn't be fair?





Well that doesnt really work. When you look at the medical professions the medical resouces are rarely mined by non doctors and when they are the resource is too expensive. We have huge specifics that require very high quality.


We also have very few consumables, but to compete we need to mine enough of a specific to get to the next spawn. Good Lok wheat, Class 4 Liq. Petro, Dolovite iron, Rori fungus just does not come up that often.


With personals under your suggestion we just could not do that. Because the elite medical professions are forced to master their basic profession (unlike other crafters) if we want to enjoy content that requires combat skills (which is a lot of content) we just dont have the SP's like other crafters to mine efficiently under this. A WS for exampe could master Artisan/WS and master a combat profession.


I for one would be forced to close my business because of resource availabiity (med supplies). Because the resource cost is far to high to compete and purchase resource.


What would you intend to do with all the elite professions that have 15-20 heavy BER 13 harvester deeds that they would not be able to use anymore. The shour could bnot sell them for what they paid for them and architects wont be selling many because their pool to sellol them too drops along with a glut on the market of harvesters people cannot use.


Also you are placing the main harvester production market (personals) and placing it in a basic profession. Artisans will make a lot of money and architects none, ddestrpying the architects largest income source.


You need to remember Artisans were never intended to be the "miners of the galaxy". In beta the miner profession was eliminated for a reason. It was eliminated because that would place all crafters dependant on a single profession for their main needs and that profession has no content. The exonomic impacts are huge and obvious. You basically get the scenario of combat professions are dependant on all carfters, All crafters are dependant on miner. So you have many professions dependant on many professions that are dependant on one profession. And that one profession its only content is how many credits they could make lol. not good. Thats why they eliminated it in beta.


Also limiting admin per server is not really practical. That really affects the game play with legitimate alternate accounts. Also because of vacations, military duty, family emergencies and such too many times friends need help maintaining structures.


Doing even this would encourage me to cross server trade, but I also think it's an exploit.


The real issue are all the cross server trades going on. Cross server trades have had a negative impact on more than just harvesters. Player cities with ghost citizens that have gone inactive are a big issue also.


The root problem is the cross server trades. That is the only thing at issue here that is causing an imbalance. Lots per character is a balancing factor on the server. The devs never intended cross server lot tradting that adds lots but no consumer. In server lot rental/sharing was always inteneded to be allowed.


We need to find a way to eliminate cross server trading at the source. But at the same time not nerf those people that legitimately have accounts on multiple servers. Some people do play on multiple servers legitimately.






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Scoooter
Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:03 am
#16

Wow how did that tripple post as I was writing it lol. Read the last one that is the complete one



Scoooter - Master Pilot/Master Politician
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Cafa
Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:11 am
#17








ObiQuixote wrote:
What ever the barrier is, I would still contend that there will be less people, not more, willing to do it with the barrier. And if it only take 30 minutes to an hour to get certs that’s 3 to 10 hours of work to get the certs for 5 to 10 servers.

I really don’t see certs as a solution to X server trading. At best it would probably be wash. Just a hard cap on the number of buildings you can have admin rights on will stop the worst cases of cross server trading.





Four big cross-lot traders approached me from Bria and Chilastra.


They already have an average of 8 characters a piece ground up to Master Artisan ON EVERY SERVER.


You are sorely naive to underestimate people in an environment where the number one profession is grinder.


Fivo Asia

Message Edited by Cafa on 06-22-2004 09:13 AM



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vars_t
Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:51 am
#18

Wouldn'tcerts increase the price of resources?



Vars
Gavvot
Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:16 am
#19



vars_t wrote:
Wouldn'tcerts increase the price of resources?





That is exactly why the pro-cert are pro-cert.

Anyway, DEV said no, so give up.

Cross-server lot trade is bad only in the mind of the players.
It actually help the economy of each server by increasing money sink.


nuff said



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joined42904
Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:26 am
#20

Please show us where the any dev has specifically looked at the certification issue and, speaking clearly and plainly on the issue, has said "no" to certs. I veiw this "dev said no so give it up" argument as a myth.


Increased resource prices are not the main reason why I am pro-cert. Helping new crafters get started by creating dyseconomies of scale is my main reason. Resource price increases compared with mining yourself would produce one such dyseconomy of scale.


One can as easily accuse the big resource barons of greed. Or accuse the elite crafters who want to keep resource prices low of disfavoring certification solely on grounds of economic self-interest.



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Scoooter
Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:31 am
#21






Gavvot wrote:





vars_t wrote:

Wouldn'tcerts increase the price of resources?







That is exactly why the pro-cert are pro-cert.

Anyway, DEV said no, so give up.

Cross-server lot trade is bad only in the mind of the players.
It actually help the economy of each server by increasing money sink.


nuff said




The problem with cross server trades is it brings a character to the server that is a producer and not a consumer and if you think the 2160 day in maintenence of a heavy harvester makes up for that you are mistaken







Scoooter - Master Pilot/Master Politician
ScootBacca - Master Creature Handler/Master Rifleman
Co-Leader - mVa
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HalasterTheBlack
Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:05 pm
#22








Gavvot wrote:
It was in one of the 19 question answered, can't find wich one anymore, but it was there.

As for the price keep low, wake up, grinding ressources are cheap, and mass produced because everybody grind since months because of the glowing stick.

Good resources with looked after stats sell at very very high prices.

Yes, the lot-trader are mass producer, and not user of resources, but crafter have fails, harvester need power and money.

Money has to go, the more money go, the better it is.
If there was less producer, prices would raise, but money will stay more in the game.

With the current system, more money goes in the sink and is destroied and if price are too high, well resources stay on the vendor forever.

So far, on all those Cert discutions, I've seen alot of cons :
-prise raising for resources AND items
-crafter becoming miners (even more than now)
-more money in the game
-more lot-trade

On the other side, I've seen nothing good given by the cert.


Take note... his first language is NOT English and he gets it (note: not a dig at this poster! European?).

Same apply for the lot-trader :
I've seen alot of people saying it is bad, very wrong blablabla, but so far, no one was able to demonstrate that to me.


I don't know if cross-server lot trades are bad for the economy. Nobody from SOE has commented one way or the other, that I know of. However, my belief is that it's bad for the game, because you have characters who are producers in the economy but who aren't consumers. They're not playing on the servers, they're just artificially increasing the lot count for someone with whom they've traded. It's against what I view as the spirit of the game, I don't like it, and I would prefer to see it gone.


But again you're right. My opposition to cross-lotting is 100% opinion-based.

I'm open minded, but I won't say something is wrong because someone tell me so, or something is right because someone tell me so.

I don't see the need to try to fix something that ain't broken except into the mind of some people (a minority for cert and a majority for lot-trading).











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Gavvot
Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:43 am
#23

It was in one of the 19 question answered, can't find wich one anymore, but it was there.

As for the price keep low, wake up, grinding ressources are cheap, and mass produced because everybody grind since months because of the glowing stick.

Good resources with looked after stats sell at very very high prices.

Yes, the lot-trader are mass producer, and not user of resources, but crafter have fails, harvester need power and money.

Money has to go, the more money go, the better it is.
If there was less producer, prices would raise, but money will stay more in the game.

With the current system, more money goes in the sink and is destroied and if price are too high, well resources stay on the vendor forever.

So far, on all those Cert discutions, I've seen alot of cons :
-prise raising for resources AND items
-crafter becoming miners (even more than now)
-more money in the game
-more lot-trade

On the other side, I've seen nothing good given by the cert.

Same apply for the lot-trader :
I've seen alot of people saying it is bad, very wrong blablabla, but so far, no one was able to demonstrate that to me.

I'm open minded, but I won't say something is wrong because someone tell me so, or something is right because someone tell me so.

I don't see the need to try to fix something that ain't broken except into the mind of some people (a minority for cert and a majority for lot-trading).



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joined42904
Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:00 pm
#24

Funny how you can't find the question and answer.



Issadra 12-pt Master Armorsmith, Master Merchant
NERF Armory 5103, 2008 Lost Sanctum Dantooine
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